117 motor, are the pistons .010 over?

Energy One
T

TheDeadOne

Banned
Moespeeds said:
I'm sorry I must be using the wrong terminology here. I took a power drill and used a ball hone. Gary told me I was "knocking the glaze off" for the new rings. He said the hone was very soft and I could go at it all day and not change the size of the cylinder. I went back to my other buddy after reading all of this, and basically he told me the same thing. These guys are not hacks, both are well respected mechanics who have great reps and work on some pretty fine stuff. The guy I just spoke to specializes in motor work. I'm in the dark about all of this, I've never had my motor apart like this, but when I've got 2 guys with this much experience telling me what to do, I gotta defer to them. They both are basically telling me that if I'm not going to try to bump compression or increase performance, just get it back together as quickly and cheaply as possible. Btw carlos, I got my gaskets, thank you so much I owe you bigtime!
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Moe,
This sounds much, much better now!
Before in your comments, you started of with "my buddy has a machine shop in his garage in his "back yard". Then the different descriptions of techniques, yada, yada, yada.
It was "O" so scary! I restrained myself, due to my lack of knowledge on who these gentlemen were, but I almost ask: "Was there a Shade Tree over the garage"? :D
I glad I did restrain myself now! I really would have looked like an A.H.! :D
Sounds Good Now! Good Luck!
 
Moespeeds

Moespeeds

Well-Known Member
Do any of you guys know if I'm supposed to gap the oil scraper rings that sandwich the corrugated spacer ring? It's not clear in the manual. It says not to gap the oil rings, but do they mean that bottom ring that's smaller anyway?
 
V

Vegas

Well-Known Member
Normally no...but if your running .010 over rings I'd slide them down in the bore and make sure they aren't to tight. How much did you have to file the compression rings?
 
Moespeeds

Moespeeds

Well-Known Member
Not much, the old rings were at the high end of spec, about .025. What I did fuck up was fitting the first set. I gapped them in the bottom of the cylinder. When double checking them, I realized that the bottom of the cylinder is a few thou smaller than the top where the piston actually runs. Now the first set I filed is out of spec. New set ordered. Not a big deal since I had to send my clutch master cylinder back to HHI for a leak so I'm down anyway. Note to self don't drink while gapping rings!
 
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T

TheDeadOne

Banned
Compression and Scraper rings yes. As Vegas said +.010 Oil Ring? But remember when placing rings into cylinders.
#1 - Label each completed ring for Cyl. 1 & Cyl. 2 (Don't mix up! Cylinder sizes may vary somewhat.)

#2 - "Square Up" rings in cylinder for measuring gaps! If possible, use inverted piston to push rings down into cylinder slightly to square up rings. (This is very important for proper sizing!)

#3 - Each ring has a different measurement for the ring end gap. This allows for the proper expansion of the ring when engine is heated to full temp. without breaking. (Ring ends touching, then no more room for heat expansion of ring. "Break"!),( Also too much end gap will cause a loss of compression.)

Good Luck! :2thumbs:

Just read:
"Note to self don't drink while gapping rings!" :D :lol: Yep! Good Idea! Might Help!

Tooo Many .000000?

:2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
 
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Moespeeds

Moespeeds

Well-Known Member
Yeah I mic'd them in at 1/2" down the cylinder. I have the S&S manual for the spec's on the gaps, but they change terminology as you read so it wasn't clear of they want me to gap the scraper rings. Once I fitted them all up it's clear that I need to.
 
Moespeeds

Moespeeds

Well-Known Member
There are 6 rings per piston. The top Moly ring, the second Iron ring, the 3 piece oil ring, and then a 6th ring going on the bottom that is smaller than the rest. It has a dimple on it that S&S says needs to line up with the wristpin on the piston. The oil rings needed to be sized, the corrugated ring comes undersized no matter what so I don't touch that, and the bottom ring is also undersized. The manual calls the top 2 rings "compression" rings, then the corrugated ring is called the "oil scraper" or "oil ring". Then that bottom ring is called the scraper support ring. The manual gets confusing because it changes terminology and doesn't always match with what the tech bulletins on the web page are saying.
 
stlmikie

stlmikie

I wish I had more money.
The manual was probably printed before the tech bulletins. I may would stick to the bulletins. The latest and greatest.


Moespeeds said:
There are 6 rings per piston. The top Moly ring, the second Iron ring, the 3 piece oil ring, and then a 6th ring going on the bottom that is smaller than the rest. It has a dimple on it that S&S says needs to line up with the wristpin on the piston. The oil rings needed to be sized, the corrugated ring comes undersized no matter what so I don't touch that, and the bottom ring is also undersized. The manual calls the top 2 rings "compression" rings, then the corrugated ring is called the "oil scraper" or "oil ring". Then that bottom ring is called the scraper support ring. The manual gets confusing because it changes terminology and doesn't always match with what the tech bulletins on the web page are saying.
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T

TheDeadOne

Banned
Moespeeds said:
There are 6 rings per piston. The top Moly ring, the second Iron ring, the 3 piece oil ring, and then a 6th ring going on the bottom that is smaller than the rest. It has a dimple on it that S&S says needs to line up with the wristpin on the piston. The oil rings needed to be sized, the corrugated ring comes undersized no matter what so I don't touch that, and the bottom ring is also undersized. The manual calls the top 2 rings "compression" rings, then the corrugated ring is called the "oil scraper" or "oil ring". Then that bottom ring is called the scraper support ring. The manual gets confusing because it changes terminology and doesn't always match with what the tech bulletins on the web page are saying.
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Only 4, 3rd ring is made up of 3 components.

Top - Compression Ring (Moly-faced/dot up)(Gap .017 - .025)
2nd - Compression Ring (Dot up or chamfer down)(Gap .017 - .025)
3rd - Top Oil Rail
Oil Expander Ring
Bottom Oil Rail
4th - Oil Support Ring (Sm. Protrusion down and with wrist pin)(Gap .015 - .035)

Ring end gap position is critical during installation.
Do you have "Placement Diagram" (Picture)?

Let me know if you need it Moe.
Good Luck! :2thumbs: :2thumbs:
 
Moespeeds

Moespeeds

Well-Known Member
Got it all together tonight and just started it up (it's 2AM my neighbors love me). Everything looks good, I let it warm up for a min then shut it down. I'll do a few more warm ups tomorrow, and hopefully my clutch will come back from HHI and I can ride it.
 
Moespeeds

Moespeeds

Well-Known Member
Everything looks good. I put about 300 miles on over the weekend, and it's holding together. I thought I had some oil leaking at the base gasket, but I'm not sure it wasn't some residual from assembly, seems to have stopped. Thanks for all the help guys, and especially thanks to Little Boo for hooking me up with the gaskets. I hope I can return the favour some time!
 
Finn

Finn

Active Member
Moespeeds said:
Everything looks good. I put about 300 miles on over the weekend, and it's holding together. I thought I had some oil leaking at the base gasket, but I'm not sure it wasn't some residual from assembly, seems to have stopped. Thanks for all the help guys, and especially thanks to Little Boo for hooking me up with the gaskets. I hope I can return the favour some time!
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Glad to hear it.
 
Little-Boo

Little-Boo

Well-Known Member
Troop Supporter
Good Deal Moe, Glad you were able to get that dog back on the road.

Congratulations :cheers:

Carlos :whoop:
 
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