07 K-9 SPEEDO?? WTF??

[Raywood]

If you EHC plug is round (serial) there is no upgrade or flash. If it is USB then your EHC should be flashed. In this case it will cycle when you turn the key on and do it again after you start the bike or hit the run key.
I have the older EHC so mine was not flashed. Alicat had his done when we had our bikes in at Carls Speed Shop in Daytona.

So determine what EHC plug you have and you will know if you should get it flashed.

:flag:

 

[Raywood]

in reference to american biker, im not here to smear anyone but i have 2 buddies with bikes there now. one having a clutch replaced and he now has to get his tank repainted due to carelessness and the other went in for a ignition module replacement on his grandeur bobber and sometime while sitting in the shop his mirror jumped off his bike on to the floor. no one saw it but they say thats what must have happened because one minute it was on the bike and the next it was on the floor with the stem snapped off and a big gouge in the side.

back to mine.. the tach does as always has worked. the speedo has not been replaced at all. so far i've gotten a full battert charge and a speedo sensor( possibly ) replaced. the broken wire theory makes a lot of sense to me.

GAS MAN
i also just went to the garage and checked when i cycle on the key the speedo sweeps, i push run and it does not sweep again.

Read "Showdogs" comments in the Murtle Beach thread on where the trucks and warranty work guys will be located. They can fix you up better than your dealer that will be there with one of the trucks anyway!

Later,
Ray

 

[Ohmster]

What you have is a battery in a marginal state. Even though it is on the tender you have enough sulfation in the battery that although you keep the battery up around 12.8 vdc your capacity in CCA is not quite high enough. When you hit the start button on a cold engine it pulls the CCA down enough there is a voltage drop in the battery and the micro controller in the speedo basically gets stuck. Reason it works after you have been riding a bit is the VR has refreshed your battery enough and your engine is warm so it spins over easier.

If your EHC has the rectangle USB connector on it you can get a software update installed in it that will cycle power off and back on quickly to your speedometer as soon as you release the start button. That is the start button only and when you are starting the bike, not putting the bike in air ride mode or hitting the start button after the bike is running. The run button DOES NOT cycle power to the speedo, just the start button.

If you have the round serial port connector on your EHC then you need to have a load test done on your battery with a proper load tester, not a cheap automotive tester. If your battery test ok then you need to look at your battery and starter power and ground connections. Also see if your starter solenoid plunger is pitted from arching or starter chatter from a low battery.

 

[lee]

I got issues with my speedo too - it boots up ok and the tach lights work but the needle does not work sometimes - I then have to switch off at the key and try again - it usually then works - I do not believe this is a voltage problem, certainly not from the battery as I have tested the battery and it is good and this sometimes happens on a not cold start, after fuelling etc - this issue irritates me no end and I want to get an aftermarket speedo but don't know what I'm looking for i.e. any specifics we need for a Big Dog - I do not want another from BDM, just look at Ray on his 9th speedo. where is the sensor? I want to take a look at this..

 

[Big Ron]

Force them to replace your entire speedo all the way to include the sensor. Go to another dealer for the obvious reasons. You have too much intermittent stuff going on with your speedo that dose not sound familiar here.

You have enough documentation to support this.

Your speedo has been re-flashed if it cycles when you turn the key to on and cycles again after you push the start button. Had mine done at Daytona by Tampa BD. It cures the problem associated with speedo not working correctly if you start your dog before you let the speedo cycle.

Make sure they remove the rubber plug inside the speedo also.

 

[Ohmster]

He states that it does not recycle after he hit is start button. It is not the speedo and replacing it will acomplish nothing. It's available voltage during the start cycle. He needs to load test the battery and if he has the USB EHC get the software update.

Lee needs to make sure the load tester used was capable of testing correctly down to a 270 CCA rated battery and check the battery and starter connections, then check the solenoid plunger.

Once again, replacing the speedo and the sensor will accomplish nothing for this particular situation.

 

[lee]

thanks for your input Ohmster - very much appreciated - so are you saying the battery, the starter and the solenoid can all have an affect on the operation of the speedo? even if I have no starting issues whatsoever and it cranks very strongly and starts right up every time? and even though my speedo sometimes doesn't work first time after a warm start after just stopping for petrol?
Also, I apologise if my post came across as a rant - it wasn't intended that way as I'm not into the bitching and moaning thing - but this speedo thing can be a bit annoying

 

[Ohmster]

No problem Lee, I didnt consider it a rant and can understand why you are frustrated. Trust me when I say its an available voltage issue. With out going into to many details that would fill a whole page your amperage in your battery is dropping to low when you hit your start button. 99 percent of the time the battery is the reason due to either no being maintained or the capacity has just dropped over time. I would question the load test you had done, not being concerned with voltage in the battery but available CCA in the battery. It is possible it could be either a solenoid issue or even a starter motor issue but that is pretty rare compared to just the battery. You state it spins over easy and starts right away so that tends to make me think it is available CCA in the battery.

 

[Oscar Maldonado]

Welcome.

 

[Fibersnake]

Interesting item on the battery and thanks to Ohmster for putting it up. So if I understand right, a low CCA situation can created the issues for the speedometer.

I take it that for some reason a measurement of the CCA is being conducted in the cicuits for the electronics. Hell if I can make it to MB this year, I may have to look up Ohmster and buy him a cold one when he is not bogged down so he can explain the circuit. Just out of curosity what would be the lower limit for CCA to insure that speedo cycles properly anyway?

Not that I have had any problems, but I do have a full CD battery tester that will do the whole guantlet of testing (used to be in telecom and managed to aquire one along with a bunch of other crap such a OTDR and Single and Mass Fusion Splicer that I will probably never use again).

 

[slowrower]

Ha ha, just picked up the print outs today from Staples.

Hey Raywood - any chance of getting a copy? .. I am happy to cover any and all costs.

 

[KaptinAmerika]

Okay I am way to busy to read all the posts attached so I apologize in advance if I am off the mark but I have an 06 K-9 and I have had the same kinda issues and the same kind of insane back and forth trips with people telling me they fixed the problem. In the end the shop replaced my battery, I had replaced it with several different brands, with a Harley Davidson battery that has 400 and some odd cranking amps. Of course the battery is larger than a standard bike battery and we had to cram it into the battery box but it did the trick. All the issues I had before that went away specifically the issue with my speedo. Like yours it would work and then not work and then work and then not work. But since they put this bigger battery in all my electrical related problems went away. What was really cool was they did not charge me for the battery until after they new it had resolved the issue.
Now for the question. Why did the bigger battery fix the problem? I don't have a real answer for that. The only thing I can tell you is that the Big Dog answer guy was at the shop testing my bike, as well as a couple of others, and this was the solution they came up with. So far my bike, as well as the other two, had speedo and electrical problems and the bigger battery fixed the issue.

I hope this helps

KaptinAmerika

 

[Raywood]

This just broght to mind! When I was in Daytona and my bike died at a gas station on the way out of town to start my cross country trek my speedo didn't work when I left Alicats RV. Then I get to the station and it won't start. All cause of the battery that Ohmster replaced to get me back on the road. So, it wasn't providing enough voltage at startup to work the speedo properly otherwise I've had no problems with my latest speedo.

Thanks Jason!

 

[PROFLYER]

Wow, that was like having GOD chime in. Thanks Ohmster!
I have a USB EHC (say that 5 times fast) and my speedo does NOT cycle again, ever, after I hit the button. Guess I'll take it back down to the shop before the warranty is up (COME ON WARM WEATHER!). Will they replace my battery under warranty if it doesn't load test high enough? It's ALWAYS been on a tender from day 1 so I'd be surprised to see it not meet the mark.

 

[Raywood]

Hey Raywood - any chance of getting a copy? .. I am happy to cover any and all costs.

Slow, I'm not very happy with the copies. They were supposed to do them on both sides of the sheet so I wouldn't have so many pages and they were unable to do this.
Plus it cost me $38 just for the shiny heavy sheets (35) and 3 hole punching so not ecenomical.

What I am going to do is when I get back to Palm Spring in May I am going to have my sister n law make them for me. She is the manager of a Staples and said she can do them for me the way I want them and for cost so thinking only a couple bucks per printing. If I can get it done earlier I will post it here.

Thanks,
Ray

 

[P8RIOT]

When you hit the start button on a cold engine it pulls the CCA down enough there is a voltage drop in the battery and the micro controller in the speedo basically gets stuck.

Like Ohmster says, it is the VOLTAGE drop that causes the speedo microcontroller to get stuck, not the AMPERAGE directly. However, there is a relationship between AMPERAGE and VOLTAGE. When you press the START button, the starter motor draws a huge amount of current (amperage) from the battery, and when it does, the battery VOLTAGE drops. It is this related voltage drop that can potentially confuse the microcontroller. After you release the START button, the big current draw by the starter motor ceases, and normal battery voltage returns. This is when the speedo circuit is reset the SECOND time, if your bike has had the software upgrade (sometimes referred to as "flashing the EHC").

Many dealers have been confused regarding how to install the softare upgrade for the EHC. Even our most excellent dealer here in Washington state has had some difficulty with it. I would not be surprised if your dealer THOUGHT they did it, but did not do it properly. You can easily tell if they did it right.

1. When you turn on the key, the speedo will jump up to 60, and then drop back down to 0 - just like when it was new. If the software was not properly upgraded, it will only cycle like that once, when the key is first turned on.

2. If the software upgrade was done properly, the speedo will cycle a SECOND time, just after the START button is RELEASED. Not when the RUN button is pressed or released - not when the START button is first pressed - only when the START button is RELEASED.

...If your EHC has the rectangle USB connector on it you can get a software update installed in it.

Like Ohmster says, not all bikes are intended to get this software update - only those with with the rectangular USB type plug under the seat. Raywood's 2005 chopper, for example, has a ROUND plug, so he did not get the software upgrade. The following picture shows what the USB plug looks like on my 2007 K-9. The white cable ending in plug #1 is connected to the EHC. It comes with a black cover (#3) on it, to protect it from the elements. Plug #2 in the picture is not part of the bike - it is what dealer's cord would like if they were to connect their computer to your bike. That is, #2 from their computer plugs into #1 on your bike.

...I had replaced it with several different brands, with a Harley Davidson battery that has 400 and some odd cranking amps. ...Why did the bigger battery fix the problem? I don't have a real answer for that.

Ragarding KaptinAmerika's experience, (1) having a brand new battery, (2) with more cranking power (amperage) available, most likely eliminated the troublesome voltage drop while the starter was engaged.

 

[lee]

If Ohmster says the battery is most likely causing the issue I have then that is good enough for me - thanks Ohmster - we all appreciate your input on the forum

 

[P8RIOT]

If Ohmster says the battery is most likely causing the issue I have then that is good enough for me - thanks Ohmster - we all appreciate your input on the forum

Exactly, Lee - he knows what he's talking about. :up:

 

[lee]

Exactly, Lee - he knows what he's talking about. :up:

so do you by the looks of it

 

[P8RIOT]

so do you by the looks of it

Actually, I had a long conversation with Ohmster last time I visited the factory - GREAT people back there! :up: