02 Pitbull won’t move in gear

mattylight

Member
Here is a link to the manuals. This has me baffled too.
I think the pictures are giving an optical illusion on the wear pattern. Skogdog posted the wrong year clutch assembly.
What I want you to do is raise the back tire off the ground, put it in 6th gear, and see if you can spin the tire. Then reassemble the clutch and do the same thing. Let us know what happens.
Okay so with the clutch disassembled and the bike in the air in 5th gear, I spun the wheel, and the basket spins too. I reassembled all the clutch discs and diaphragm springs, in 5th gear I am able to spin the wheel but the clutch does not move. It is not particularly easy to spin the wheel either and there is a noise that sounds like something is slipping? That’s the best way I can describe it
 

mattylight

Member
when I spin the wheel I feel resistance and the primary chains start to move, the resistance is probably the motor, but if I keep trying to spin it something slips and the wheel rotates, and then it catches again and has resistance and then slips again
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Are you saying:

When I have the bike in 1st gear the ratio is harder to turn the engine over than top gear or I move the engine too easy in top gear.

When I spin the wheel I see the primary chain take up the slack but the crank never moves.

When I feel this resistance we are back to a half worn friction face, or the photo just showed it was flat, so say it has the cut grooves all around for oil path sling. It slips without the crank moving, then locks up and can move the crank, but once I try to see the crank move, the plates slip again... then it does not matter if the frictions are even pads between cuts, or one half the plate is smooth, it's a worn pack no matter how you look at it.

If we agree with our same-same scenario, yes, change out the pack complete.
If say the frictions have this half wear pattern, remove just the pressure plate, press the friction plate so it holds the rest in place, move the rear wheel and see if the clutch inner wobbles on the slow spin.
 

mattylight

Member
Are you saying:

When I have the bike in 1st gear the ratio is harder to turn the engine over than top gear or I move the engine too easy in top gear.

When I spin the wheel I see the primary chain take up the slack but the crank never moves.

When I feel this resistance we are back to a half worn friction face, or the photo just showed it was flat, so say it has the cut grooves all around for oil path sling. It slips without the crank moving, then locks up and can move the crank, but once I try to see the crank move, the plates slip again... then it does not matter if the frictions are even pads between cuts, or one half the plate is smooth, it's a worn pack no matter how you look at it.

If we agree with our same-same scenario, yes, change out the pack complete.
If say the frictions have this half wear pattern, remove just the pressure plate, press the friction plate so it holds the rest in place, move the rear wheel and see if the clutch inner wobbles on the slow spin.
What I am saying is, with the clutch completely assembled. With the bike in ANY gear and spinning the rear wheel, the primary chain takes up slack and then the wheel spins. That’s it. When the wheel is rotated the slack is taken up in the chain and I can feel the resistance in the wheel, and then the wheel spins. The motor does not rotate, the chains do not rotate, the clutch does not rotate just the wheel
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Then we agree it's that simple to break loose a super worn out clutch pack statically.

You found the problem. Now, address the questionable fiber plate wear... do we see all oil path lines, or are they half worn and are rubbed out oil path grooves? You're not out of the woods yet.
 

Mr. Wright

Guru
Lifetime Supporting Member
Sven, is correct. Get ahold of Eric at HDM and see what he has. He might send you to Energy one. They are a vender on here.
IMG_20200107_161708.jpg
 

mattylight

Member
Then we agree it's that simple to break loose a super worn out clutch pack statically.

You found the problem. Now, address the questionable fiber plate wear... do we see all oil path lines, or are they half worn and are rubbed out oil path grooves? You're not out of the woods yet.
Is the oil paths the grooves between the pads on the fibers? Sorry I am not familiar with wet clutches, I’m assuming that’s what you mean
 

mattylight

Member
Here is a hypothetical for you guys

if I turn the adjuster screw on the clutch In far enough to put more pressure on the clutch discs and re do that test, would that simulate a new clutch pack? What should happen with the wheel if I were to try that, would the wheel just not budge?
 

Sven

Well-Known Member

If we look at this picture, we see a friction plate as opposed to a steel plate. To read a friction plate visually, not a service thickness measurement, but looking at a friction, we would have an equal surface all around the plate, meaning, see this photo and can you see the oil path grooves and then the photo shows some are gone?

So the question is:
Is the photo deceiving and it does have all grooves around the pad surface?
Or, is there a strange out of kilter kind of bent shaft/clutch hard parts, causing it to wear in this half pattern where some of the grooves are missing from wear and some are still there?

Still not out of the woods is the wear factor. Again, the question is a photo shot or an odd wear pattern of missing pad oil path grooves?

And no, the screw acts like a valve lash needing a gap for oil and heat expansion. So look how this goes... screw it in, you home the rod back to the deepest point, as you now home the balls into the bottom of the ramp and that is all she wrote on the clutch lifter mechanism. Now the pressure plate holds the screw, the more you screw it in, the more the pressure plate leaves the pack and moves away from holding the pack from slipping. All you did was act as if you pulled the clutch in and slipped the clutch that way.

See it yet?
 

mattylight

Member

If we look at this picture, we see a friction plate as opposed to a steel plate. To read a friction plate visually, not a service thickness measurement, but looking at a friction, we would have an equal surface all around the plate, meaning, see this photo and can you see the oil path grooves and then the photo shows some are gone?

So the question is:
Is the photo deceiving and it does have all grooves around the pad surface?
Or, is there a strange out of kilter kind of bent shaft/clutch hard parts, causing it to wear in this half pattern where some of the grooves are missing from wear and some are still there?

Still not out of the woods is the wear factor. Again, the question is a photo shot or an odd wear pattern of missing pad oil path grooves?

And no, the screw acts like a valve lash needing a gap for oil and heat expansion. So look how this goes... screw it in, you home the rod back to the deepest point, as you now home the balls into the bottom of the ramp and that is all she wrote on the clutch lifter mechanism. Now the pressure plate holds the screw, the more you screw it in, the more the pressure plate leaves the pack and moves away from holding the pack from slipping. All you did was act as if you pulled the clutch in and slipped the clutch that way.

See it yet?
The photo is deceiving. All of the friction discs, front and back have those grooves in them. It looks like they are worn in that picture because I had flash on and the camera was facing directly above the grooves
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Lucky you. Replace all steels and frictions... Nothing wrong with shafts or hard parts..
 

knothead

RIGID4LIFE
Supporting Member
I been wondering as i been reading if the basket to starter gear bolts are broke or like what Mr.wright said the main shaft is broke
 

mattylight

Member
I been wondering as i been reading if the basket to ring gear bolts are broke or like what Mr.wright said the main shaft is broke
I am going to disassemble tomorrow and report back my findings. I will update everyone.

Thank you everyone for your feedback its truly appreciated
 

Mr. Wright

Guru
Lifetime Supporting Member
I been wondering as i been reading if the basket to starter gear bolts are broke or like what Mr.wright said the main shaft is broke
If the basket bolts were broke it wouldn't start. The give away was when he was spinning the center hub, with it in gear.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
If the basket bolts were broke it wouldn't start. The give away was when he was spinning the center hub, with it in gear.
Ah, thus the partial free spin, it rolls back to the cracked point as both match and hang locked for a moment, then the thrust past and breaks the crack again, frees up, repeats?
 

mattylight

Member
Ah, thus the partial free spin, it rolls back to the cracked point as both match and hang locked for a moment, then the thrust past and breaks the crack again, frees up, repeats?
You described it better than I could. I sent a video to Mr. Wright and he agreed
 
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