Hi guys i recently attempted to start my chop during a fairly cold spell here in England but the motor spun and then i noticed a plume of smoke rise from beneath my seat. i removed the seat and i couldn't see any burnt offerings or sacrificed wires so i began the search so firstly i changed the circuit breaker and then the relay but still nothing but upon pressing the starter button a clicking could be heard from the Thunder heart unit so at the moment i'm puzzled
Thunder Heart micro unit
- Thread starter Army007
- Start date
Mikeinjersey
Well-Known Member
Welcome from NJ,
What bike do you have? The click your hearing could be the compression releases which when all is well you don't hear because the sound of the engine takes over. The click could also be your starter solenoid operating without enough power to hold and crank the starter motor. Pull your battery and have it load tested. Inspect the wires really close, if the smoke didn't come from the battery itself frying it would be good to know what did fry so you could repair it.
Check your charging system when you get it running because it may be overcharging and caused your battery to crap out. Should be around 14vdc when running.
Cheers for the reply Mike the bike has a S & S motor in it and runs a 3" BDL open primary which sometimes causes the starter to just spin without engaging, anyway i attempted to turn the motor over during a cold spell last week and the battery seemed to turn it over but i noticed the smoke from beneath the seat so i stopped trying to start it. i looked for any fryed wires but nothing and when i pressed the starter the only noise you could hear was a clicking i checked the circuit breaker and relay but the clicking came from the Thunder Heart unit so i unscrewed the cover and its just a circuit board in there. So im presuming that even though the lights are bright and the horn blows and its been on a trickle charge then maybe the battery has gave up the ghost
See if the cables are loose on the battery posts. Take a sniff at the black box, literally and see if that scent picked up the trail of some BBQ going on with an electrical part.
A good charge going on for months with a smart kind of charger, or a constant output charger that was on for say half a day and repeated say in a month or less later? When a click occurs it says PUSH is no longer available, just a click is about as powerful if any to hold the magnetic field in the relay to transfer PUSH to the starter motor.
And this is where you replace the battery with a mat or BS style battery the manufacturer recommends. I know a BS (battery acid supplied) will last a lot of years if you follow the small print and those directions. But a mat style wet and sitting on a shelf is money or years lost sitting there not in service as soon as it's wet and apply the prep.
Then it's a crapshoot at prepping one like a BS style, and seeing if that last as long as a BS? Not unless you can buy a mat with BS and prep it right out of the box.
So one asks the questions;
did I charge the battery and say a battery loses a charge 1% a day and now a month later is 31% down give or take a day.
did I charge the batter with a trickle and kept it on the day I let it sit, or now I'm going to charge it months later.
did I neglect to charge it at all and now I expect to see it light right up and threw the car charger on it for a few days and cooked out the acid, I didn't mention sulfur, but now it just clicks.
did I now figure out that charging it till the sun comes down, watt time is it? It's new battery time it is.
-Edit-
CCA = COLD cranking amps.
Hi, I'm freezing my nuts off out here in the garage and shit, my piss froze up my dick, crack my head, ah, there is goes, well I'll never write my snow in the name of g, shut this guy up! Here, hold my frozen beer, lemme start the bike. WATT? It's almost close to riding season. I just got started... get it? Started...
A good charge going on for months with a smart kind of charger, or a constant output charger that was on for say half a day and repeated say in a month or less later? When a click occurs it says PUSH is no longer available, just a click is about as powerful if any to hold the magnetic field in the relay to transfer PUSH to the starter motor.
And this is where you replace the battery with a mat or BS style battery the manufacturer recommends. I know a BS (battery acid supplied) will last a lot of years if you follow the small print and those directions. But a mat style wet and sitting on a shelf is money or years lost sitting there not in service as soon as it's wet and apply the prep.
Then it's a crapshoot at prepping one like a BS style, and seeing if that last as long as a BS? Not unless you can buy a mat with BS and prep it right out of the box.
So one asks the questions;
did I charge the battery and say a battery loses a charge 1% a day and now a month later is 31% down give or take a day.
did I charge the batter with a trickle and kept it on the day I let it sit, or now I'm going to charge it months later.
did I neglect to charge it at all and now I expect to see it light right up and threw the car charger on it for a few days and cooked out the acid, I didn't mention sulfur, but now it just clicks.
did I now figure out that charging it till the sun comes down, watt time is it? It's new battery time it is.
-Edit-
CCA = COLD cranking amps.
Hi, I'm freezing my nuts off out here in the garage and shit, my piss froze up my dick, crack my head, ah, there is goes, well I'll never write my snow in the name of g, shut this guy up! Here, hold my frozen beer, lemme start the bike. WATT? It's almost close to riding season. I just got started... get it? Started...
Last edited:
Hi Sven im going to admit that i didnt have the battery on trickle charge but when i turned the bike over it spun ok but as soon as i noticed the smoke appear i switched off. i removed the seat checked the wiring and didnt find anything resembling bacon so i thought give it another spin but this time nothing, i left the battery on charge for 3 days knocked it on to find all lights were good and the horn blew like a freight train but only a clicking from the Thunder heart unit. my touring Harley is in there so i think i will see if i can jump start the chop from the Harley
tcrowelljr
Member
I would check the battery cables and connections. What year and model do you have? I've been warned against jump starting, but have also done it without damage. It doesnt sound like its the EHC to me. I would make sure you have a good battery and if it were me, i'd buy a new one and make sure all connections were clean and tight.
Mikeinjersey
Well-Known Member
It only takes a little time and usually no money to have your battery load tested. Be careful with jumping the bike while your not sure about what your problem is you could end up with both bikes down. Consider this possibility instead. Read the voltage across the battery terminals while you hit the start button. The voltage before hitting start should be 12.8+ volts and when you add the load it should only drop a volt or two. If the starter is locked up ( possible cracked reduction gears) the voltage will drop several volts and you may not hear a peep out of the starter but if you continue to hold the start button you would probably start seeing smoke. https://www.bigdogpartskingpin.com/...idle-armature-gears-dssc-2-0-all-05-11-models.
This is just an example of what it could be, obviously I don't know what starter you have but I do know if you make a mistake with the starter circuit your drawing top amps and can cause major meltdowns if your not careful.
Also the spinning of the starter gear without engaging intermittently could be a Starter Drive Clutch. Murphy's law one day you will be at the bottom of a hill with nowhere to push start and that problem will bite you in the ass.
Good Luck troubleshooting.
Hi Guys so the on going issue affecting my Chop and the Thunder Heart Micro Unit, i purchased a new Exide Lithium ion Battery and i connected everything up but still nothing apart from the clicking that was coming from the micro unit so i though "i know i will press the solenoid button on the end of the starter. So the starter spun but the button must be sticking because it didnt release so the only way to stop it was to remove the Battery terminal and then the battery flattened. So im no further on with this pain in the arse and i noticed that the frame bracket where the battery earth is bolted to started to glow bright red which im putting down to a bad earth connection, im starting to get angry with this mother
I would replace the ground cable completely and clean that area up. Does it ground to the frame or motor? You might want to check with a good ohm meter from neg. Battery post to starter bolt after you have it back together, before trying again. You might want to get two new wires. Battery to frame then on that same bolt run one to the motor.
Was the motor turning or just the starter?
Hi Buddy i have had problems with the BDL 3" open primary where the starter would spin and not engage but it would eventually engage, im thinking of ditching the BDL and fitting a standard primary, some folk have said the BDL puts undue stresses on the crank. Anyway to answer your question it was spinning the starter but not the motor and it seemed as though it was stuck as it just spun until i pulled the battery terminal. as you stated im going to make up a couple of battery earth terminals and run one to the frame and one to the motor
Well I agree with Rottweiler on the ground to frame & motor. I don’t think the stress on the crank from the BDL open primary would be anything of concern enough for removal unless you just prefer a sealed primary. Good luck with it all. Keep us posted on your progress
I agree with Mick maybe the starter just needs aliened better.
Mikeinjersey
Well-Known Member
Ok, the starter circuit is fairly simple. When you use a slam button, as you indicated, you are essentially removing the start button from the mix and if you leave the key off you have no ignition. Your issue seems directly related to the starter itself. It may have started with the weak ground you referenced(glowing Red). The positive end (red cable +) of the battery connects to the positive post on the starter. The starter itself is grounded to the frame through the mounting bolts. In your case it seems the battery ground cable (black -) has it's own grounding connection to the frame. On some bikes that cable is directly connected to ground through the starter mounting bolts. When the slam button is pushed in, all you are doing is manually connecting the + side to the - side and completing the circuit which makes the starter turn.
When you pushed in the slam button it was probably mechanically stuck for some reason or the contacts melted together.(remember the smoke from under your seat).
1: Pull the battery
2: repair/replace the burnt cable and frame ground connection
3: Pull the starter and take it apart looking for damage and repair/replace whats needed.
4: bench test the starter and replace it.
Slam buttons have been known to unscrew and short the starter unintentionally.
You could also consider a rebuild from WSW especially because you have the additional problem of the starter drive clutch.
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