Starting issue

[fsharrisjr]

Question; 04 Mastiff. Was having an intermittent starting issue and noticed worn contacts in starter so I installed a Slam start button. Button worked great as long as I still hit handle bar switch to disengage plunger. I now have new contacts but still having an intermittent starting problem. But now when I hit the slam button and starting switch it won’t disengage. Plunger stays in until I kill battery. Can I install a bypass to kill the magnetic field and release the plunger?? Or better yet any help with tracking down the starting issue since the starter rebuild wasn’t the issue???
I did just order two different starter relays.

 

[Sven]

All this time and it hangs up now? I'd do one of those self lineups, loosen the starter bolts to a snug fit, push the slam and see it it walks back when it realigns itself.

 

[Mr. Wright]

Question; 04 Mastiff. Was having an intermittent starting issue and noticed worn contacts in starter so I installed a Slam start button. Button worked great as long as I still hit handle bar switch to disengage plunger. I now have new contacts but still having an intermittent starting problem. But now when I hit the slam button and starting switch it won’t disengage. Plunger stays in until I kill battery. Can I install a bypass to kill the magnetic field and release the plunger?? Or better yet any help with tracking down the starting issue since the starter rebuild wasn’t the issue???
I did just order two different starter relays.

Get with Eric at HDM, and get a new starter. For the price those are going for, it's not worth rebuilding.
www.bigdogpartskingpin.com

 

[fsharrisjr]

I’m pretty sure this is an electrical problem of sorts. New starter might not be solution. This starter is built. Most of this bike has been rewired and prob more aftermarket harley components.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Real question is why doesn't the hand control switch work to start it? Possibly worn out hand control board switch? Wonder if starting is intermittent based on how hard or the angle you press the button? You say rewired? What unit is in there now?

When you use that slam button it's back feeding current on the solenoid wire.

If you are just going to keep using the slam button to start the bike just unplug the green wire going into the solenoid and leave it off. That will eliminate the back feed should take care of it.





Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

 

[Sven]

Agree. Pull the backwash wire.

I would think once that shaft is sent to a magnetic field, that shaft is ringing dead center with all that mag vibrating. So if that did the trick, no case centering.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Question; 04 Mastiff. Was having an intermittent starting issue and noticed worn contacts in starter so I installed a Slam start button. Button worked great as long as I still hit handle bar switch to disengage plunger. I now have new contacts but still having an intermittent starting problem. But now when I hit the slam button and starting switch it won’t disengage. Plunger stays in until I kill battery. Can I install a bypass to kill the magnetic field and release the plunger?? Or better yet any help with tracking down the starting issue since the starter rebuild wasn’t the issue???
I did just order two different starter relays.

First, I would recheck the work you did on the starter and slam button. You may have created a bind in the slam button or burnt and pitted the new contacts causing them to stick. Next I would use the start button to start the bike and use the slam button for when the start button fails. The start button has 2 functions that act simultaneously. It activates the CR's momentarily and also activates the starter until you release the button. If when you hit the button you only hear the cr's click the EHC is failing to send the signal/voltage to the starter solenoid. That would indicate the start button is functioning correctly. If you hear nothing then your switch is bad or intermittent.
Pull the green wire and put a meter on it. You should hear the cr's click and see approx 12 vdc on the wire. Hit it a bunch of times to see if the button is sketchy. If all is good your problem is with the starter solenoid or starter itself. Look closely where the green wire enters the housing. Sometimes it gets fractured and causes a failure. Depending on how bad, it can be repaired with a little solder.
If you decide it's an EHC issue do as The3Infamous says and disconnect the green wire and strictly use the slam button to activate the starter and the start button at the same time to activate the Cr's.
This advice is of course related to a cranking issue not a starting issue. Many times a weak/old battery is the "starting issue" and the symptoms look like the starter is to blame when indeed it's the lack of balls in the battery causing no crank or slow crank.

 

[fsharrisjr]

Real question is why doesn't the hand control switch work to start it? Possibly worn out hand control board switch? Wonder if starting is intermittent based on how hard or the angle you press the button? You say rewired? What unit is in there now?

When you use that slam button it's back feeding current on the solenoid wire.

If you are just going to keep using the slam button to start the bike just unplug the green wire going into the solenoid and leave it off. That will eliminate the back feed should take care of it.





Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

When I hit the Handlebar button I hear the plunger engage every time but only turns over about 60% of time. Battery is good.

 

[Sven]

Ground degrade? Scrub clean the battery ground strap to the frame. Or the quick and dirty. Find 3 other grounds to frame and engine, while the 4th jumper cable end is on the battery's ground post.

Shows better ground, and say if 60 is almost 50%, you'd never see it hang and starts 100% each time, and this tells you the cable end at the frame has lost some grounding effect.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

When I hit the Handlebar button I hear the plunger engage every time but only turns over about 60% of time. Battery is good.

Are you sure it's the solenoid plunger and not the CR's that your hearing? Does the engine not even try to crank 40% of the time or is it weak. What is the at rest voltage of your battery? 12.8+ is imperative for proper operation. Even then it's no guarantee the battery is good. Lot's of different issues on BDM are caused by bad connections or weak batteries. If it's old get a new one.

 

[fsharrisjr]

I appreciate all the feedback. I plan to check and clean all ground connections. Double check my battery. Through in a new relay just because.

 

[fsharrisjr]

Are you sure it's the solenoid plunger and not the CR's that your hearing? Does the engine not even try to crank 40% of the time or is it weak. What is the at rest voltage of your battery? 12.8+ is imperative for proper operation. Even then it's no guarantee the battery is good. Lot's of different issues on BDM are caused by bad connections or weak batteries. If it's old get a new one.

No it won’t even crank. Just a click, when I pulled the cove off starter it would suck plunger in (click) but nothing else. When issue first started it was very random hot or cold. It would click then 20 min later start without issue. I tried manually hitting the CR release with no change.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Since your certain the starter solenoid is firing and you have new contacts inside I'm guessing your armature must have some dead spots. If your connection from the battery to the starter is good and the starter ground side is good to ground, add in the new solenoid contact to complete the circuit and that means the starter is getting what it needs to turn. Got a few if's in there so I would pull the starter and bench test it before ordering one.
You said your bike is an 04 . The wiring diagram doesn't show a start relay for 04 BDM. Is it possible that your bike does not have stock wiring.

 

[fsharrisjr]

Correct I got it used with some issues (bad horn, blown fork seals)for a good price. It has Harley handle bar controls. Also has a deadman switch so no key. Most of the components are black box. (No markings). But haven’t had a reason to look that close until now. Does have a relay. I will attach some pics of relay and old contacts.

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Correct I got it used with some issues (bad horn, blown fork seals)for a good price. It has Harley handle bar controls. Also has a deadman switch so no key. Most of the components are black box. (No markings). But haven’t had a reason to look that close until now. Does have a relay. I will attach some pics of relay and old contacts.

Ok , another thought , I had a slam button that had an adjustable throw. I'm not sure if all slams have that adjustment but possibly if yours does maybe the adj is too tight and caused your holding issue.
Bench test the starter and if it tests out ok buy a new battery, charge it up and worst case you have an extra battery but at least you will know it's not your problem. Batteries can fake you out big time.

 

[Gottaflirt]

2007 K9. The bike sometimes will start cold but after a 20 min ride I'll try to start it and all I can hear is the compression releases poping. The headlight is nice and bright but goes compleatly out when the start button is pushed leading me to think a loose or dirty battery cable but not the case. Sometimes after 15 or 20 imes pushing thwe start button she'll fire right offf. The starter sounds really strong when it is engauged . With just enough push to turn the enigne over it starts right up and runs great untill you shut it down and try to restart I have replaced the battery and it meters 12.88 volts. The voltage reads the same when the bike is at an idle (900 rpms). I disconnected the silinoid wire(Green) and with the key off it reads 5.8 Volts and with the key on and pushing the start button I get 12.8 volts. Any Ideas?

 

[chubs]

Correct I got it used with some issues (bad horn, blown fork seals)for a good price. It has Harley handle bar controls. Also has a deadman switch so no key. Most of the components are black box. (No markings). But haven’t had a reason to look that close until now. Does have a relay. I will attach some pics of relay and old contacts.

From the looks of those contacts in the solenoid, I'd almost bet that the armature could be in need of attention (undercutting the mica, and cleaning the contact bars) and/or possibly a new set of brushes. Just a thought.

 

[fsharrisjr]

So far I’m 4 for 4 on standard starting. Weather has really been bad so I guess I’ll find out where I stand at bike week. I’ll be bringing my tools.

 

[Gottaflirt]

Sitting the shop on a bucket staring at my bike I had a thought, A couple of months ago (Here is my long winded story reguarding my oi leek). I sprang an oil leek under my primary cover area. I didn't tink much about it and changed "o" ring. There were a couple of strange things about how much and when the oil was leeking. I was surprised that after installing the seal it still leeked. I was getting pissed so I remover the "o" rinfg and filled it up with silicone gasket maker (this was a bad idea and hard to clean up)) and it still leaked. I was noticed that if it sat overnight it would only leak 4 or 5 drops but
if I rode it hard and parked it while it was hot it leeked like mad. I knew it wasn't possible but it acted as if the primary chain area was under pressure and the oil was being forced out. In fact so much oil I couldn't really tell where it was comming from and the oil so clear from three changes in two weeks there wasn't a trail to the source. As a last resort I wiped it down really well and dusted the bottom of the engine with baking flower which stuck really well to the film of oil and any moving liquid was sure to leave a trail. When I came back in an hour I had fresh drops of oil on the floor and srtipes in the flower indictating the oil was now leeking up and down the seams beteen tha cases and the block.
I concluded the only way there could be pressure was a pulged vent and the expansion caused by trhe heat build up is why it leeked so much when hot and so little when cold. So back together and a new and improved vent from Eric and Donna at Big Dod Parts King (The best parts experts I have ever worked with) filled the oil and havent leeked a drop.
Back to the starter and thinking the starter trouble started during my leek period so . . I am thinking the built up pressure sent some of the oil that slings around from the primarty chail up to the starter gear and vented out thru the starter somehow.
The introduction of oil into the starter could have caused my problems. Hit me with your thoughts or ideas or if you think bullshit tjhen tell me.
As for my bike the new starter will be here friday and open the old one and let you know what I find.
P.S. As for BDM"s little breather vents for your primary THEY SUCK!! They are to small and you cant blow hardlry any air through them even after washing them out with starting fluid Donna and Eric sell a much improved vent for less than $15.

 

[Mickmorris]

So far I’m 4 for 4 on standard starting. Weather has really been bad so I guess I’ll find out where I stand at bike week. I’ll be bringing my tools.

Make sure to stop by the River Grille in Ormond Beach on March 5th & 12th which ever you can. 1pm BigDog motorcycle Get Together. See you there!