Karata 4" Open Primary Q

[SKOGDOG]

I have an issue with the 4" open primarybelt drive on the 2008 K9 I bought.
Background: purchased a couple of weeks ago. 4600 miles. Not too sure when the open primary was installed, but at 4600 miles, the primary has not many miles.
Roger and I rode to Sturgis and rode a couple hundred miles local sightseeing, and returned home. Entire trip about 2K miles. Until 25 miles from home, performance was spectacular.
Issue: I stopped to clean the bugs off my face shield and I started the bike (in neutral), dropped it into first gear (flawlessly). When I eased out on the clutch, it started to move forward. I pulled back on the clutch lever, but it continued to engage and pull the bike forward. I had to lock the front brake and hit the kill switch to get control. I re-started the bike and put it in first gear again without any dragging. When I eased out on the clutch, it did it again (dragging). If I coast along with the clutch lever depressed, it will soon release and act normally. Once moving, it seems to shift normally and smoothly.
Have any of you experienced this type or similar symptom with a Karata? And what was the fix? Jim at Karata thinks I need to replace the steel drum with an aluminum, and install a clutch & basket. I noticed the other day someone was mad him for a post, and am hoping everyone will stay on point--the clutch itself.
I really like this Karata Primary, and have every intention of continuing to use it. But having no experience with them, I ask you who do have experience with the Karata to share your thoughts.

 

[TapioK]

Did you have rain? Though I have never had problems with Baker I remember John Sacks telling some opens have had problems when water enters dry clutch


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[Trainguy]

Hey Rick. The bike had about 1000 miles on it when Gasman & I put the belt drive on so about 3600 hundred on the drive plus what you have on it now.

Trainguy

 

[SKOGDOG]

Did you have rain? Though I have never had problems with Baker I remember John Sacks telling some opens have had problems when water enters dry clutch


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We left home in rain and were wet for the first 100 miles or so...no issues the rest of the trip until the incident described above.

 

[pauldeepsea]

I have an issue with the 4" open primarybelt drive on the 2008 K9 I bought.
Background: purchased a couple of weeks ago. 4600 miles. Not too sure when the open primary was installed, but at 4600 miles, the primary has not many miles.
Roger and I rode to Sturgis and rode a couple hundred miles local sightseeing, and returned home. Entire trip about 2K miles. Until 25 miles from home, performance was spectacular.
Issue: I stopped to clean the bugs off my face shield and I started the bike (in neutral), dropped it into first gear (flawlessly). When I eased out on the clutch, it started to move forward. I pulled back on the clutch lever, but it continued to engage and pull the bike forward. I had to lock the front brake and hit the kill switch to get control. I re-started the bike and put it in first gear again without any dragging. When I eased out on the clutch, it did it again (dragging). If I coast along with the clutch lever depressed, it will soon release and act normally. Once moving, it seems to shift normally and smoothly.
Have any of you experienced this type or similar symptom with a Karata? And what was the fix? Jim at Karata thinks I need to replace the steel drum with an aluminum, and install a clutch & basket. I noticed the other day someone was mad him for a post, and am hoping everyone will stay on point--the clutch itself.
I really like this Karata Primary, and have every intention of continuing to use it. But having no experience with them, I ask you who do have experience with the Karata to share your thoughts.

Your clutch/clutch cable may needed adjusted.

 

[liferider]

its Clutch dust. Your use to a wet clutch and have not delt with this. Take your clutch disk cover off. With an air hose and a long Nosle start working your clutch handle and at the same time blow air up in the clutch disk. Takes about 3-5 min . Keep at it till no more dust comes out

 

[SKOGDOG]

I'll get it over on the lift to check the cable and take off the outer bearing support tomorrow afternoon. The cover for the clutch basket looks to be easily accessed, although I have never worked on one of these. Can't be too much different than a wet clutch except for no oil.
Seems there'd be a lot of dust to come out if there was enough to clog it up so it drags.

 

[TapioK]

its Clutch dust. Your use to a wet clutch and have not delt with this. Take your clutch disk cover off. With an air hose and a long Nosle start working your clutch handle and at the same time blow air up in the clutch disk. Takes about 3-5 min . Keep at it till no more dust comes out

I have some 1000’s on mine and never needed to do anything. Maybe the frictions are different?


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[bdm7250]

I'll get it over on the lift to check the cable and take off the outer bearing support tomorrow afternoon. The cover for the clutch basket looks to be easily accessed, although I have never worked on one of these. Can't be too much different than a wet clutch except for no oil.
Seems there'd be a lot of dust to come out if there was enough to clog it up so it drags.

Rick, never had the problem that you describe. For a bit of info and pictures, check this.
http://www.bigdogbiker.com/threads/karata-open-primary-install.80248/
Also, if you get things apart and decide you'd like to replace the clutch with new.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUIN...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
I believe Jim did change the plate design in the clutches a while back, went from 9 to 7 (don't quote me because I'm not 100% on that).
Could be something simple like your springs wearing out..

 

[SKOGDOG]

Rick, never had the problem that you describe. For a bit of info and pictures, check this.
http://www.bigdogbiker.com/threads/karata-open-primary-install.80248/
Also, if you get things apart and decide you'd like to replace the clutch with new.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE-KARATA-COMPLETE-BIGDOG-PIRANHA-JR-CLUTCH-FOR-2005-UP/231572118366?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
I believe Jim did change the plate design in the clutches a while back, went from 9 to 7 (don't quote me because I'm not 100% on that).
Could be something simple like your springs wearing out..

That post is really on point, Doug--thanks. You're correct--Jim told me there was a redesign a couple of years ago.
What torque specs did you set? I haven't found any other than adapting what is in the BDM Manual.
I cannot believe the springs and plates could be worn out with so few miles, and am confident Trainguy (DJ) did not abuse it. However they are several years old.
The clutch cable might be it, as Paul suggests, but its operation so far has been smooth and flawless.....DJ notes that was the first time it was in the rain!
If the springs were an issue, I'd think it would slip, and it doesn't. That's why pulling the pressure plate seems like what needs to happen next.

 

[liferider]

My lock up clutch has the same symptoms as yours when it’s full of clutch dust.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

I'll get it over on the lift to check the cable and take off the outer bearing support tomorrow afternoon. The cover for the clutch basket looks to be easily accessed, although I have never worked on one of these. Can't be too much different than a wet clutch except for no oil.
Seems there'd be a lot of dust to come out if there was enough to clog it up so it drags.

Not necessarily a lot of dust maybe just large enough road grit -- dust in your house is small and light, all the crap we kick up on the road is bigger and heavier and if it got wet and sticky that certainly could make it drag.
Just think of how your back fender looks after riding thru rain for a while. Can cake up pretty bad.

 

[SKOGDOG]

Stay tuned—should know more this afternoon.

 

[SKOGDOG]

Hell of a lot of clutch dust. Pretty sure that is the problem. Will try a ride in 10 min
Just back. Problem not solved. Back on the lift and will pull the clutch basket now

 

[bdm7250]

That post is really on point, Doug--thanks. You're correct--Jim told me there was a redesign a couple of years ago.
What torque specs did you set? I haven't found any other than adapting what is in the BDM Manual.
I cannot believe the springs and plates could be worn out with so few miles, and am confident Trainguy (DJ) did not abuse it. However they are several years old.
The clutch cable might be it, as Paul suggests, but its operation so far has been smooth and flawless.....DJ notes that was the first time it was in the rain!
If the springs were an issue, I'd think it would slip, and it doesn't. That's why pulling the pressure plate seems like what needs to happen next.

Rick, have a look in my Dropbox, there is a Karata file with the instructions. Not very wordy but gives you torque range on the clutch hub nut and engine pulley nut. The pulley end cover and OBS cap screws I used Blue loctite and tightened to 6ft/lbs (if memory serves me correct). Here is the Dropbox link.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4342373flodnbhj/AACDvhA93EOHPPKCs2gYPQDPa?dl=0
Let me know if you have issues with the link, I'll do it on my computer.

 

[SKOGDOG]

Thanks Doug. I knew the values were low. I was going with 10 ft bs.
I opened it up again and this time pulled the pressure plate and clutch pack out. Here is the problem:

The splines on the friction plates have worn grooves all the way around the drum. I’m looking at it and now see how the friction plates would get stuck on the grooves and not be able to slide back and forth with the clutch lever. You pull on the cutch lever and the plates say ‘I don’t think so—I’m in a groove here.’
Dunno what the drum and new clutch pack is gonna cost me, but I’m not happy.
Going now to get the impact wrench and set to left hand threads to get the basket off to prepare for replacement.

 

[roadie1389]

That sucks!

 

[bdm7250]

Thanks Doug. I knew the values were low. I was going with 10 ft bs.
I opened it up again and this time pulled the pressure plate and clutch pack out. Here is the problem:
View attachment 60224
The splines on the friction plates have worn grooves all the way around the drum. I’m looking at it and now see how the friction plates would get stuck on the grooves and not be able to slide back and forth with the clutch lever. You pull on the cutch lever and the plates say ‘I don’t think so—I’m in a groove here.’
Dunno what the drum and new clutch pack is gonna cost me, but I’m not happy.
Going now to get the impact wrench and set to left hand threads to get the basket off to prepare for replacement.

You could get both pullies, ring gear and belt for $529 or I believe you can get clutch basket pulley for around $300.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUIN...ash=item4d2efddddf:g:Z24AAOSwMpZUrEFh&vxp=mtr
You should also pick up a replacement clutch pack from Jim, they are $170. And with the clutch changes that Jim made, the friction plate grooves are now aluminum so what happened to you doesn't happen (I assume)..

 

[pknowles]

Do we have anyone with a Karata with high mileage? Be curious to see if there's more with the same issues.

 

[bruce]

Have about 17000 miles on mine but I installed EFM auto clutch shortly after, had problems with metal clutch plates cutting into clutch housing and then I installed aluminum plates, I put a how to on this website about installing open primary and showed pictures of plates