Biker Gang shoot out in Waco
- Thread starter Brew
- Start date
francoblay1
The Spaniard
liferider
Looking forward to retirement
Jay Dobyns and Willian Queen are idiots who have written books bought by bikers who have made these men wealthy. Now they are saying the police were in the right !
People can be forgiven for thinking Sunday's biker bloodbath in Waco, Texas was a throwback to a bad 1970s movie, according to a former federal agent who has first-hand experience with one of the country's most notorious motorcycle gangs.
Jay Dobyns spent nearly 30 years undercover infiltrating the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.
"What happened in Texas was zero surprise to me -- [though] it may have been surprising to society. They are no different than the street gangs, the Bloods and the Crips. It's all about violence," Dobyns told CBS News.
Play VIDEO
Undercover agent describes infiltrating biker gangs
"If you are familiar with how these guys act, their tools of the trade -- the guns, knives, pipes -- there was nothing shocking about it," Dobyns said. "It just happened to take place on a large scale, in a public venue."
The shootout -- which killed nine people and wounded 18 -- seemed aberrant because the public image of many motorcycle gangs has been burnished in recent years, thanks to the many largely benign bike enthusiasts who've co-opted some of the same clothing and style.
Retired ATF agent William Queen went undercover for more than two years and testified against members of the gang he infiltrated, later writing about the experience in the book, "Under and Alone."
He told CBSN's Jeff Glor that despite heightened concern from law enforcement, the possibility of revenge attacks from the groups involved in Sunday's brawl is low.
"Those organizations know that the eyes of the nation are on them right now," Queen said. "And I don't believe that they're going to be stupid enough to pull something with everybody watching right now."
Play VIDEO
Waco police detail arrest of 170 bikers over shootout
"I think, as a society, and to a large extent even in law enforcement, we fall into the sense that these guys are these big, rough-looking teddy bears that do blood drives and toy runs and are harmless," Dobyns said in a separate interview with the Associated Press. "These are people that have used the motorcycle culture as camouflage."
The more sinister side of biker culture was thrust into the spotlight after Sunday's shooting in the parking lot of a restaurant where members of several rival gangs were having a meeting. By Monday, authorities had charged about 170 gang members with engaging in organized crime.
Queen described the dispute between two of the gangs -- the much-smaller Cossacks, which has ties to the Hell's Angels, and the Bandidtos, currently one of the largest biker gangs in the world -- as "David and Goliath."
"The Cossacks were getting tired of being pushed around and pretty much 'called it' on the Banditos. There wasn't violence that was going on, but it was kind of building up," Queen explained. "And they were there to kind of talk about this thing at that coalition meeting, and it led from a parking space dispute to [a] full-fledged gun battle."
Watch Queen's entire interview with CBSN by clicking on the video above.
The motorcycle culture's image problem goes back at least to 1947, when a race in Hollister, California, descended into two days of bloody riots. The American Motorcycle Association, the race's sponsor, responded to the coverage by declaring that 99 percent of participants were law-abiding.
People can be forgiven for thinking Sunday's biker bloodbath in Waco, Texas was a throwback to a bad 1970s movie, according to a former federal agent who has first-hand experience with one of the country's most notorious motorcycle gangs.
Jay Dobyns spent nearly 30 years undercover infiltrating the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.
"What happened in Texas was zero surprise to me -- [though] it may have been surprising to society. They are no different than the street gangs, the Bloods and the Crips. It's all about violence," Dobyns told CBS News.
Play VIDEO
Undercover agent describes infiltrating biker gangs
"If you are familiar with how these guys act, their tools of the trade -- the guns, knives, pipes -- there was nothing shocking about it," Dobyns said. "It just happened to take place on a large scale, in a public venue."
The shootout -- which killed nine people and wounded 18 -- seemed aberrant because the public image of many motorcycle gangs has been burnished in recent years, thanks to the many largely benign bike enthusiasts who've co-opted some of the same clothing and style.
Retired ATF agent William Queen went undercover for more than two years and testified against members of the gang he infiltrated, later writing about the experience in the book, "Under and Alone."
He told CBSN's Jeff Glor that despite heightened concern from law enforcement, the possibility of revenge attacks from the groups involved in Sunday's brawl is low.
"Those organizations know that the eyes of the nation are on them right now," Queen said. "And I don't believe that they're going to be stupid enough to pull something with everybody watching right now."
Play VIDEO
Waco police detail arrest of 170 bikers over shootout
"I think, as a society, and to a large extent even in law enforcement, we fall into the sense that these guys are these big, rough-looking teddy bears that do blood drives and toy runs and are harmless," Dobyns said in a separate interview with the Associated Press. "These are people that have used the motorcycle culture as camouflage."
The more sinister side of biker culture was thrust into the spotlight after Sunday's shooting in the parking lot of a restaurant where members of several rival gangs were having a meeting. By Monday, authorities had charged about 170 gang members with engaging in organized crime.
Queen described the dispute between two of the gangs -- the much-smaller Cossacks, which has ties to the Hell's Angels, and the Bandidtos, currently one of the largest biker gangs in the world -- as "David and Goliath."
"The Cossacks were getting tired of being pushed around and pretty much 'called it' on the Banditos. There wasn't violence that was going on, but it was kind of building up," Queen explained. "And they were there to kind of talk about this thing at that coalition meeting, and it led from a parking space dispute to [a] full-fledged gun battle."
Watch Queen's entire interview with CBSN by clicking on the video above.
The motorcycle culture's image problem goes back at least to 1947, when a race in Hollister, California, descended into two days of bloody riots. The American Motorcycle Association, the race's sponsor, responded to the coverage by declaring that 99 percent of participants were law-abiding.
Kdub
Active Member
Whether fishy or not, law abiding people do not allow themselves to be put in that place. Saying LEO's "set it up" and gunned down innocent bikers is not accurate. I'm sure there were people there who were not involved in the criminal element of the club, however they chose to associate and involve them self with that. You can bet I would never be caught hanging out there with those people, because this is the kind of thing that happens when you involve yourself with the wrong crowd.
aspen874
Well-Known Member
I'm going to apologize in advance to anyone I might offend here. My question is why would anyone want to belong to any of these groups. My only experience to any of these clubs happens when they show up where I happen to be. The "Outlaws" are in St. Louis and I never seen such sorry ass looking group of people in my life, the women wear patches stating "property of", that's not the way I was brought up to respect a woman. I don't get it.
Kdub
Active Member
This is my point exactly. It is unfortunate that people got hurt. I'm just saying.... You run with the wrong crowd and bad things can happen to you. Even if you don't have negative intentions.
BadDawg Bill
Well-Known Member
We can argue all day about being in or associating with biker clubs but cops shooting 27 people over a 6 person fist fight, $1m bail to keep 170 of them quiet and locking up the video to hide the truth is not American justice.
liferider
Looking forward to retirement
I go to A biker bar that has steak night on Thursdays. Usually 20-25 Banditos show up, 10-15 Booze fighters also. This is a neutral site though colors are warn. Wives are all there and everyone is very friendly. Banditos Sargent at arms has been very nice to me. Matter of fact he works at a over head door company that I now use because I like him. He does great work at a fair price! I have only had 1 bad experiance with 1%ers. At One Eyed Jacks in Sturgis the Texas Tornados had what looked like a 17 yr old girl in the center of 10-14 of the bikers. Going one to the next blowing them. My wife made a comment and two of them turned around and said," bitch we will throw you in the ring next"! I broke my Corona bottle over the rim of his nose and put the broken bottle end in the other idiots face
liferider
Looking forward to retirement
BadDawg Bill
Well-Known Member
And you walked out of there? Lucky man and wife... "broke my Corona bottle " sounds like a Yuppy thing to me. Sorry but I don't believe you... I rode with a 1% club and you would have never made it to the door....
liferider
Looking forward to retirement
Doesn't matter what you believe. I know what and how it ended. Started quickly and ended with 8-9 security and cops all over us. B&D yes that's one of the reasons the cops got us out of there the way they did .
BadDawg Bill
Well-Known Member
Ok, he brought up a situation I find hard to believe. I've been there, done that and got the patches... I'm not saying he lied but it's hard for me to believe.
Well, after Nam I still wanted to have the rush. Normal life was so removed from the Nam experience and I wanted to feel alive. Most "normal" people bored me to death and I saw the same comradeship I saw in Nam with the club. I was young and I wanted to feel alive and make life exciting. We had some great times and high adrenaline going on. I was in the club for 3 years.
When the "club" sent a guy out on a beer run and raped his wife I quit. That was not brotherhood and was not for me. I really don't fit in with this forum, the club life style and all the yuppie bikers but a few of the guys on here are true bikers and I enjoy reading their posts and helping newbies out.
So take my posts as is and know I've lived the life that most only read about and know more than most on this site after 50 years of riding and building bikes. If I offend you then I'm sorry but that is what I know to be true and I'm only trying to help and like a few others on this site I say what I believe not what you all want to hear......
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BadDawg Bill
Well-Known Member
Well, you are very lucky and I'm surprised they didn't come after you later. I can't say what I know about the clubs I was with but you wouldn't be typing if it were one of the clubs I was in. Blood for blood and you would be a marked man...