05 TP ROCKERS

[05chop]

I'M wanting to know what exactly what takes place when rockers noise is present? Most here get the heads replaced as we know the guilds live here. Is it that the guilds are installed wrong and get loose? Is it from the rockers side loading the valve stem? One wood think that from this the valve wood fail and drop. Clarification on this please

 

[lee]

do most here get the heads replaced??

 

[Fibersnake]

I had mine replaced and what I gathered is with the TP Rocker, the geometry was a little off and thus side loading the valves causing uneven forces which in turn created and oblong wear on the guides.

They change out my whole head, springs, valves, roller rockers, guides, everything but the boxes themselve. The TP boxes have held and are holding up good and boxes themselves were not the problem, ti was the rocker and the geometry.

According to what I got from my dealer, it is somewhat common problem on the 05 but not as big as made out to be. Most never have the issue but when it occurs it is usually due to geometry.

Also from what I gathered, orginally BD would just change out the head assembly when it first started up, but got where they wanted to have the dealer check closer after awhile for they were getting too many heads back that had nothing wrong with them. In my case they did a blow down and measured the roundness and found them out of tolerance, thus a change out. The dealer did say that many folks have asked about it and were driven from the noise factor, but many times the noise was jsut due to folks not be familar with the Big Bore Engine and the regular Valve Train noise as well as just needing a adjustment.

So from everything I could gather, it is on some, the geometry is out enough between rockers and valve to create uneven force and thus wear the guides, not on all and not a high precentage, but enough to be possible and when it occurs, BD stepped up while under warrenty. Also that they get allot of new riders concerned about the noise and there is nothing wrong, just riders not used to the new sounds.

 

[Fibersnake]

Oh the dealer did mention that sometime, BD has been known to jsut have them rebuilt the heads verse new ones, depending on situation but when it occurs they did change out the rocker assembly, valves, guides and spring, just not heads.

 

[Cutter]

I had mine replaced and what I gathered is with the TP Rocker, the geometry was a little off and thus side loading the valves causing uneven forces which in turn created and oblong wear on the guides.

They change out my whole head, springs, valves, roller rockers, guides, everything but the boxes themselve. The TP boxes have held and are holding up good and boxes themselves were not the problem, ti was the rocker and the geometry...

Same here on my '06 Fiber I noticed increased noise and vibration.

Still haven't gotten it back... the dealer took care of the surface warranty and recall work before checking the heads :angry:.

The have to check rockers and valves assy and prove they are out of tolerance, before they can replace just those items...

Same boxes for me, but for people that brought it in earlier, they replaced the whole deal...

 

[lee]

if they are going to use S&S engines why do they not just use S&S engines? why do they mess about with them and get it wrong?

 

[Raywood]

if they are going to use S&S engines why do they not just use S&S engines? why do they mess about with them and get it wrong?

The way I understand it was cause they were reaching the 10,000 bike mark back in 04 when they were coming out with the 05's and then trying to meet the latest EPA restrictions.
EPA restrictions are not only for exhaust but also sound and supposedly the TP covers were quieter that the S&S. Same goes for why they used restrictor plates and E carbs on the 05's and then later learned that they were not needed.

EPA crap that the manufacters have to meet now a days.

:flag:

 

[ajo771]

My bike starts making a ticking noise in the top end after about 50 miles or so (about half an hour to an hour of running).

Is this an indicator of this problem, or is this normal as engine warms up?

 

[ChuckRB05]

re

My bike starts making a ticking noise in the top end after about 50 miles or so (about half an hour to an hour of running).

Is this an indicator of this problem, or is this normal as engine warms up?

Mine does the same thing...even after they replaced my heads, valves, rollers and etc. Things just heat up and expand and tend to make a lot of noise.

 

[Fibersnake]

ajo,

Can not recall that it started at 50 miles. Would start noticing the increase noise pretty much after it got upto normal temps which would be within a few miles or steady running. It was more like the same normal noise but louder and more pronouced, at time almost like an old Singer Sewing Machine. Not so much a tick like you describe, but more a constant noise that would flow with the reve of the engine, just slowly getting louder and louder and that was after insuring that the valves were adjusted.

Have you check you valve pushrode adjsutment lately? YOu may want to got to the DIY folder and check the pushrod adjustment to be on the safe side.

 

[dogvet]

Mine does the same thing...even after they replaced my heads, valves, rollers and etc. Things just heat up and expand and tend to make a lot of noise.

A little increase in valve train noise isn't uncommon when the oil heats up and thins out. If your hearing a lot of ticking at low rpms, pinch off the vacuum line that goes from the intake manifold to the front head. You'll get about a 5 psi increase in oil pressure at idle/low rpms. Why you ask? That vacuum line is there to generate a vacuum inside the engine case so that there isn't any oil carry-over (or leaks). That same vacuum gets applied to the vent on the oil tank which puts a vacuum on top of the oil. At idle, the intake vacuum is almost the same as the amount of suction created by the oil pump which makes it harder for the pump to draw in enough oil. (bear in mind that the oil system is by design a "gravity feed" system) As the throttle is opened, vacuum goes down, vacuum on the oil tank decreases and oil pressure increases. At high rpm, there is very little vacuum and isn't a problem.

On S&S website in the technical section this issue is addressed and even S&S says to remove the vacuum.

Try it sometime, just pinch of the vacuum line when the oil is warm and listen for a difference in the valve train noise or monitor your oil pressure.

 

[05chop]

DOGVET Is geometry wrong then? Is this why some dealers are replacing the cylinder heads?

 

[Nomad2day]

My 07 Bulldog does not have rollers on the top end from the factory and a Beehive single spring only good for .585 lift...
Feel like we got robbed on the EFI bikes for some reason compared to the carb bike top ends..
Neil in Tenn

 

[Chopper Dave]

DOGVET Is geometry wrong then? Is this why some dealers are replacing the cylinder heads?

I had my heads replaced and the whole valve train...S&S ...and they also put on the S&S rockers.....my dealer found that my guides were out of tolerance....and this was done under warranty...:2thumbs:

 

[dogvet]

DOGVET Is geometry wrong then? Is this why some dealers are replacing the cylinder heads?

I've seen a few bikes with premature valve guide wear (even to the point of wearing through the guide in the port, but this seems to have been only on intake valves.

I suspect that dealers are replacing heads as assemblies so that failure analysis can be performed. If the heads are repaired in the field, it's a bit harder to do an accurate diagnosis of the failure mode.

As a mechanic, I've alway been taught that roller rocker arms are better than standard rockers because they don't cause and side loading of the valve and they run quieter. Now that S&S is making standard rocker arms, they claim that a standard rocker arm is better....I'm sticking with roller rockers myself.

 

[Gas Man]

I know the dealership that Dave & I got to now... they always use roller rockers.

 

[General_Mayhem]

FYI:

http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/performance/8527-headwork-done-rolling-down-road-tp-boxes-replaced-05-chopper.html