Bike frustrations

[SLCVikefan]

I have a 05 mastiff and I was riding along and it just quit. I pulled over and tried to restart it, it cranks right over and starts. Runs for about 10 seconds and dies. I did this several times and the run time got progressively shorter and shorter until now it wont fire at all. If I crank on it (starter works just fine by the way) nothing happens until I let off the button, then it will either backfire out the exhaust or spit out the carb, depending on which valve is open I suppose. That's the motor part.
The turn signals only flash on the dash. Neutral light and the oil light come on. No emergency flashers, no brake lights, no horn, and no hi beam. Battery is fully charged, all the connections are tight and clean. When I press the 'run' button the little red light on the ehc lights up and so does the one on the ignition module. While cranking it over I get blue and green alternating lights on the ignition. Is the ECH shot? If so, whats my next step? Please help!

 

[pauldeepsea]

I have a 05 mastiff and I was riding along and it just quit. I pulled over and tried to restart it, it cranks right over and starts. Runs for about 10 seconds and dies. I did this several times and the run time got progressively shorter and shorter until now it wont fire at all. If I crank on it (starter works just fine by the way) nothing happens until I let off the button, then it will either backfire out the exhaust or spit out the carb, depending on which valve is open I suppose. That's the motor part.
The turn signals only flash on the dash. Neutral light and the oil light come on. No emergency flashers, no brake lights, no horn, and no hi beam. Battery is fully charged, all the connections are tight and clean. When I press the 'run' button the little red light on the ehc lights up and so does the one on the ignition module. While cranking it over I get blue and green alternating lights on the ignition. Is the ECH shot? If so, whats my next step? Please help!

I would start to see if you have a short in one of your wires, look for bare exposed wires. Are you opening the throttle repeatedly trying to start it with the throttle? This will cause the carb to spit and backfire. If you continually twist the throttle you are spraying an excessive amount of gas into the motor and will cause your plugs to foul. 2 twist on the throttle is all you need.

 

[KaptinAmerika]

Check for spark at your plugs.
The alternating leds on your ignition module tells you it is sending signal to the coil.
However, if you aren't getting spark, or the spark is extremely weak, then you may have a coil going bad on you.

 

[Fat_Bastard]

Agree w/Kaptin & Paul for first steps...

I have a 05 mastiff and I was riding along and it just quit. I pulled over and tried to restart it, it cranks right over and starts. Runs for about 10 seconds and dies. I did this several times and the run time got progressively shorter and shorter until now it wont fire at all. If I crank on it (starter works just fine by the way) nothing happens until I let off the button, then it will either backfire out the exhaust or spit out the carb, depending on which valve is open I suppose. That's the motor part.
The turn signals only flash on the dash. Neutral light and the oil light come on. No emergency flashers, no brake lights, no horn, and no hi beam. Battery is fully charged, all the connections are tight and clean. When I press the 'run' button the little red light on the ehc lights up and so does the one on the ignition module. While cranking it over I get blue and green alternating lights on the ignition. Is the ECH shot? If so, whats my next step? Please help!

DOES NOT SOUND LIKE A BAD EHC! .... but just in case see below

I have a 2004 (Chopper)
"Sounds like" you need the proof...
IS YOUR EHC BAD?...

Read on if you are not sure, or want to compare stories otherwise sorry for the long post.

I underlined in your post and mine what I thought was significant and similar.

My Headlight Problem:
Was about 6 months from intermittant headlight problem to flat out dead on the road and the long push home, several times in denial, that it just couldn't be my second EHC was bad! --WTF! but it was...

Please see my other threads on full diagnosis fix and wait time for WirePlus.

One can only hope it is not your EHC intermittantly slowly failing like all the rest...

While I generaly agree with what others have said here...

I had similar electrical problems...
I thought it was a bad EHC but needed to prove it-- before spending $500 on Wire Plus. So I got a wiring diagram, measured voltages in and out of the EHC and at various points. I was able to determine through the voltage faults that the EHC was in fact bad.

Mine on how to determine bad EHC:
************************************************** ******
Check Voltages; Check EHC input & output voltages.

My "EHC" symptoms are:
a) months ago Low-Beam started to intermittantly go out; had to use Hi-Beam only; All else was OK.

b) got New Battery and trickle charged every night. Problem went away two months ago.

c) one month ago Low-Beam out again, Hi-Beam only; bike randomly just lost all power to spark plugs while riding; continued to quit electricaly (no spark, but other lights, horn, turn signals OK, but no Hi-or-Lo beams) Let it sit by side of road for ten minutes then could start and ride it home. (I knew no spark by carrying spare spark plug I connected and held to side of cylinder while cranking.) no signs of weak new battery. All else was OK.

d) rode home, checked voltages:
on same New Battery: 13.5 while on charger, 13.1 off charger; 12.5 dip at startup cranking; started engine --running it charges immediately to 14.2 volts, seems OK. But no Headlight at all.

e) Checked Headlight voltages at bulb connecter:
Yellow wire 10.5, White 7.5; with key ON or engine running. (of course checked/swapped bulbs and jumper wired temporarily off battery to be sure all were working ok).

f) Pulled Connecter to Headlight under gas tank and measured same exact voltages as at Headlight connector; Yellow wire 10.5, White 7.5; Checked ignition wire 12.1 volts.

g) Checked voltages at EHC 50 pin connector while connected and ignition key ON: pins 16 & 17 same yellow and white wires to headlight, same voltages 10.5 and 7.5

I think this means my EHC is bad --cannot get 12 volts out of the EHC to headlight...I can only ride with no headlights for 9 miles or fifteen minutes and bike quits per item c) above. Systems charges because engine cranks fine and all other lights OK all the time.

Just my thoughts... OK back to my Big Mac and Supersize Meal.


UPDATE 7-5-2012
****EHC was in fact Bad****
Just got my Wire Plus Kit and Ignition Key Switch (after a Loooooooong Wait, 3 months!)

It has fixed all my problems per above, bike runs great now even seems slightly stronger at low rpm and idle --perhaps the failing EHC was not allowing strong voltages and current to other areas...

All in all I feel a strong Nuetral to the whole Wire Plus Solution. My 2004 Chopper had no PDM alternative product offering (at that time). Third choice was to rewire Harley style -- out of the question for me, too much money. Had no other reasonable choice; So for $500 and change I expected more from Wire Plus -- a "plug and go" solution.

Pro and Con:
Con:
Installation instructions are very poorly written and lack enough proper helpful photos.
(youtube video helped, showed me the wrong way to mount the modules backwards blocking view of LED's; and they probably thought they were showing you the right way, LOL) Many things omitted... -- and all wires and connectors should have come as more of a "plug and go" set up for the $500 plus... I felt they just built two modules and let you build the rest supplying a few pieces of wire and bunch of connectors. Very expensive and they took my money upfront, pretty much ignored my requests for updates and status and a 3 month wait for fabrication WTF!!!

Pro:
It worked.

Nuff said.

PPS: still running fine as of 1-21-2014.

 

[SLCVikefan]

Thanks for responding guys.
I don't usually touch the throttle. Doesn't need it. It's cold here in Utah right now, but the bike's in a nice warm shop.
The thing about it is, I took a spark plug out and grounded it to the motor, and cranked it over. Just as I thought, there was no spark until I let off the button. Then I would get one single spark. I really dug into it today, took the left tank off and the oil tank covers and inspected the wires thoroughly. Didn't see anything obvious. Tomorrow I will get out the Powerprobe and do a more intensive search. I'm with ya on the wire thing. Maybe something shorted (this is what I would lean towards)or an open somewhere. When I got the tank off I did find a wire that was not grounded very well, it when to the thingy in between the cylinders that has a vacuum line going to it, (what ever that is) I crimped a new end on it and re-grounded it to the head, but, no such luck. The fact that it all went to hell at once makes me think I might be in the market for a wire plus kit soon. But I'll keep my fingers crossed and let you know what I find. Thanks!

 

[pauldeepsea]

Thanks for responding guys.
I don't usually touch the throttle. Doesn't need it. It's cold here in Utah right now, but the bike's in a nice warm shop.
The thing about it is, I took a spark plug out and grounded it to the motor, and cranked it over. Just as I thought, there was no spark until I let off the button. Then I would get one single spark. I really dug into it today, took the left tank off and the oil tank covers and inspected the wires thoroughly. Didn't see anything obvious. Tomorrow I will get out the Powerprobe and do a more intensive search. I'm with ya on the wire thing. Maybe something shorted (this is what I would lean towards)or an open somewhere. When I got the tank off I did find a wire that was not grounded very well, it when to the thingy in between the cylinders that has a vacuum line going to it, (what ever that is) I crimped a new end on it and re-grounded it to the head, but, no such luck. The fact that it all went to hell at once makes me think I might be in the market for a wire plus kit soon. But I'll keep my fingers crossed and let you know what I find. Thanks!

Are you talking about the compression releases? They are in the center of your heads. To me it sounds like you are not getting any spark to the plugs. Did you pull both plugs and check each one? You should get a spark when you hit the run switch not when you release it. Leads me to think bad ignition coil.

 

[BigDogBro1]

The battery voltage should be over 12.5v at rest and I think stay above 10v when cranking.

 

[SLCVikefan]

Are you talking about the compression releases? They are in the center of your heads. To me it sounds like you are not getting any spark to the plugs. Did you pull both plugs and check each one? You should get a spark when you hit the run switch not when you release it. Leads me to think bad ignition coil.

No, not the compression release. This is in between the heads above the carburetor. It has a vacuum hose connected to it coming from the carb an two wires.

 

[SLCVikefan]

The battery voltage should be over 12.5v at rest and I think stay above 10v when cranking.

Battery is good.
I can't get anything to work other than the marker lights, the low beam headlight and the starter works just fine. The emergency flashers won't even activate.

 

[BikersDream]

What key switch is in the bike? Old style or new? The way to check is turn on the key switch, as you turn it off does the power go off as soon as you move it or just before the bottom? BDM Motorcycles have been known to loose power with older switches. But you could have a crank sensor bad. Many fail. Remove it and clean it. Inspect for cracks in the plastic as you remove it. Check lights on the EHC as you turn on the bike. Out? Just more to check out.

 

[SLCVikefan]

What key switch is in the bike? Old style or new? The way to check is turn on the key switch, as you turn it off does the power go off as soon as you move it or just before the bottom? BDM Motorcycles have been known to loose power with older switches. But you could have a crank sensor bad. Many fail. Remove it and clean it. Inspect for cracks in the plastic as you remove it. Check lights on the EHC as you turn on the bike. Out? Just more to check out.

No lights on the EHC come on until I press the RUN button. The key switch cuts power as soon as I start to turn it. It's only 2 wires so I jumped them, and no difference. I'm beginning to think it's the EHC because everything that is an EHC function is not responding. Are the dash lights an EHC function? Is a coil with only 2 wires (not spark plug wires) to it a dual fire? I bought the bike used and there has been some mods/repairs and the coil appears to be one of them. But both wires going to it are hot (12 volts) with the key on.

 

[pauldeepsea]

No lights on the EHC come on until I press the RUN button. The key switch cuts power as soon as I start to turn it. It's only 2 wires so I jumped them, and no difference. I'm beginning to think it's the EHC because everything that is an EHC function is not responding. Are the dash lights an EHC function? Is a coil with only 2 wires (not spark plug wires) to it a dual fire? I bought the bike used and there has been some mods/repairs and the coil appears to be one of them. But both wires going to it are hot (12 volts) with the key on.

The EHC may be bad, I would troubleshoot other possibilities first though. ignition coil etc... you could always send the EHC to Curtis at WSW and he can test it to see if its bad but I would do that last. If it is bad then replace. Otherwise, you may replace the EHC and still have the same problem..

 

[H-fred biker]

Is it the old Keyswitch if the power goes off as soon as You move it ?

 

[BikersDream]

No lights on the EHC come on until I press the RUN button. The key switch cuts power as soon as I start to turn it. It's only 2 wires so I jumped them, and no difference. I'm beginning to think it's the EHC because everything that is an EHC function is not responding. Are the dash lights an EHC function? Is a coil with only 2 wires (not spark plug wires) to it a dual fire? I bought the bike used and there has been some mods/repairs and the coil appears to be one of them. But both wires going to it are hot (12 volts) with the key on.

Im thinking you have a EHC issue also. Remove EHC connectors, Clean with a tooth brush, Reinstall new grease and try that.

 

[BikersDream]

Is it the old Keyswitch if the power goes off as soon as You move it ?

Yes, Replace it!
Known to shut bike down while riding. Pull over and restarts. :bang:

 

[Slick-Dog]

Yes, Replace it!
Known to shut bike down while riding. Pull over and restarts. :bang:

Mine did that...when I took off the key chain it started doing that...must of been the vibration.... weird deal...I put the old key chain back on...hasn't done it since..

 

[SLCVikefan]

I've tried everything short of trying a different EHC. It's dead. I've come come to accept it.
I think I'm going to just scrap the EHC and get a wire plus. Thanks for all your help. This place really is a great resource.

 

[SLCVikefan]

I've tried everything short of trying a different EHC. It's dead. I've come come to accept it.
I think I'm going to just scrap the EHC and get a wire plus. Thanks for all your help. This place really is a great resource.

 

[pauldeepsea]

I've tried everything short of trying a different EHC. It's dead. I've come come to accept it.
I think I'm going to just scrap the EHC and get a wire plus. Thanks for all your help. This place really is a great resource.

Sounds like your mind is made up. If you go wire plus I would still have your ehc tested. If it is not the problem you can always keep throwing new parts into to try to fix the problem...

 

[SLCVikefan]

Sounds like your mind is made up. If you go wire plus I would still have your ehc tested. If it is not the problem you can always keep throwing new parts into to try to fix the problem...

I tried every thing in the service manual and every reasonable suggestion on this site and could never get the wretched thing to respond. Lord knows I would've liked to have found a simpler, and more importantly, less expensive solution. I checked every wire, I ran alternate power through the harness and all my lights and horn worked that way. Yesterday I took the EHC out and printed on the side was 06, my bikes an 05. I'm guessing it's failed before. They just do. Oh the joys of buying something used and not knowing what has been done to it, and by what idiot. I don't mean to speak ill of people's work, but if you install anything electronic and decide to twist the wires together then cover it with electrical tape, your gonna have a bad time. The EHC wasn't installed that way but the under tank/fender lighting system was, and a few other questionable repairs had been made, but I knew it was going to need some attention when I bought it. I'll get her whipped back into shape in no time. I look forward to the wire plus install to be honest. It'll give me a chance to get the some of the other "questionable" repairs straightened out. Thanks for all the help!