rough shifting, unreal what I found!

[spyderdog]

So I got my 2005 Bulldog in November and there were lots of small problems. One by one I have knocked them down, by either fixing them myself with the help of this forum, or the dealer I bought the bike from pitching in and having the bike worked on. The transmission fluid had a small leak at the drain plug so I changed the fluid and put in Royal Purple 85-140 synthetic. I used the purple so I could see the different color if it was leaking.
The latest and worst problem is it shifts terrible - clunks real hard, barely shifts at all, neutral only when the bike is shut off. I tried the clutch adjustment How-to, no luck. I tried for a couple hours one day adjusting at all different points, not happening. So I went in the primary, replaced the worn out adjustment shoe, and put in a quart of Golden Spectra 85W. Shifting was still rough. The dealer I bought the bike told me to take it to a Harley dealer - of course they told me I needed a new clutch, no surprise there. So i opened the primary again, checked the clutch nut, it was tight. I took the clutch plates out, and it is a brand new 9 plate set. The friction plates have no wear on them at all, the discs are all .120 as new. The spring height also seemed ok, about .050. I put the primary back together, removed the exhaust, and pulled off the pulley cover and what I saw was the main shaft sticking out about .200 beyond the pulley nut. It was bright silver as if it had been rubbing something, HARD:bang:. The inner access cover had a groove on the bak of it from the mainshaft rubbing it, probably .060 deep.
Here are a couple pics, any suggestions what to do next? Thanks

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Too much play in your main shaft? Bearing bad in the tranny?

Am I reading this right? 85w in the Primary? Thats wayyy to heavy. Just need a simple Non-Synthetic Primary fluid or ATF fluid.

 

[Five Five]

after seeing the photos, I agree that something is not right ... your main shaft should not be rubbing like that.... Contact Bobby Schultz on the Forum here... can you confirm you have the Baker gear set with Jims case... I have seen some of the 6 speed RSD ultima trannys with a longer main shaft... and they clunk when they shift ... hopefully the experts will chime in with a solution

 

[BadBrad]

It'a hard to tell from those pics that anything is messed up, but like Eric said, your primary fluid is way too heavy. I use a premium Type F ATF. Others use a variety of primary fluids. 85W is not a primary fluid.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

after seeing the photos, I agree that something is not right ... your main shaft should not be rubbing like that.... Contact Bobby Schultz on the Forum here... can you confirm you have the Baker gear set with Jims case... I have seen some of the 6 speed RSD ultima trannys with a longer main shaft... and they clunk when they shift ... hopefully the experts will chime in with a solution

Experts? Bill, you just built your skoot from the ground up. I'd think you would know a thing or two about a thing or two. :lol:

 

[spyderdog]

This was recomended by Baker - Heavy Duty Primary Chaincase Oil ‹ Spectro Oils

 

[Five Five]

It'a hard to tell from those pics that anything is messed up, but like Eric said, your primary fluid is way too heavy. I use a premium Type F ATF. Others use a variety of primary fluids. 85W is not a primary fluid.

Brad is right thats to heavy wt for the primary ...I run the royal purple in engine and trans .... good stuff

Experts? Bill, you just built your skoot from the ground up. I'd think you would know a thing or two about a thing or two. :lol:

Thanks Eric ... but there's always an opportunity for me to learn something

 

[spyderdog]

from Baker's website: Q: What kind of oil should I use in my primary?

A: BAKER recommends Spectro Heavy Duty Primary Chaincase Fluid (85W) for all 1980-up stock clutches and mild performance aftermarket clutches. Although we recommend using Dexron III ATF with our King Kong Klutch due to the added friction modifiers found in the Automatic Transmission Fluid.
I actually did try ATF type F before I took the clutch apart. It was the easiest to get, got it at Advanced Auto Parts.
I wonder if there is a different pulley on the bike. If the pulley had a thinner hub, the pulley nut would be have to be further in. Still doesn't explain why it is rubbing the access cover. I checked the ball rampp assemblies, and regreased them. They were the newer type, even had 9P stamped on one of them, I assume for 9 plate.

 

[Five Five]

from Baker's website: Q: What kind of oil should I use in my primary?

A: BAKER recommends Spectro Heavy Duty Primary Chaincase Fluid (85W) for all 1980-up stock clutches and mild performance aftermarket clutches. Although we recommend using Dexron III ATF with our King Kong Klutch due to the added friction modifiers found in the Automatic Transmission Fluid.
I actually did try ATF type F before I took the clutch apart. It was the easiest to get, got it at Advanced Auto Parts.
I wonder if there is a different pulley on the bike. If the pulley had a thinner hub, the pulley nut would be have to be further in. Still doesn't explain why it is rubbing the access cover. I checked the ball rampp assemblies, and regreased them. They were the newer type, even had 9P stamped on one of them, I assume for 9 plate.

Any lateral movement with the mainshaft (back n forth)

 

[spyderdog]

I could not move the mainshaft. I could not move the pulley nut, but I have not tried it with a socket yet, don't have a 1 7/8 socket. I thought it was odd that it had 4 socket head cap srews holding it in place though, when Baker shows 2.

 

[bigdogtech01]

Sounds like the bearings are bad inside the transmission. It looks like the Main shaft walked due to a loose pulley nut possibly, or worn bearings. Being an '05, it most likely has the old style Main shaft in it as well. That should be replaced if your going to do a rebuild. Check out my link below if you would like to have it rebuilt....
Some things to check would be any play at all on either side of the main shaft ( Primary side, Pulley side) If any play, then your bearings are worn and should be replaced. Another thing to check is the inner cages of the bearings, if your having a lot of play, most likely the bearings are bad. Have you had the inner primary off to verify the Counter shaft bolt has not loosened up and is pocking threw the plug seal?

http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/general/40563-transmission-rebuilding-service-all-types-385-a.html

 

[Th3InfamousI]

from Baker's website: Q: What kind of oil should I use in my primary?

A: BAKER recommends Spectro Heavy Duty Primary Chaincase Fluid (85W) for all 1980-up stock clutches and mild performance aftermarket clutches. Although we recommend using Dexron III ATF with our King Kong Klutch due to the added friction modifiers found in the Automatic Transmission Fluid.
I actually did try ATF type F before I took the clutch apart. It was the easiest to get, got it at Advanced Auto Parts.
I wonder if there is a different pulley on the bike. If the pulley had a thinner hub, the pulley nut would be have to be further in. Still doesn't explain why it is rubbing the access cover. I checked the ball rampp assemblies, and regreased them. They were the newer type, even had 9P stamped on one of them, I assume for 9 plate.

Interesting you found that. I figured we have covered all of the fluid and options on this website and this is the first I have seen a recommendation of 85w in a primary case with a stock clutch.

Also makes it particularly interesting that in the same sentence they recommend a Dexron III ATF oil which is thinner oil. I see they sey specify some additional "friction modifiers"?

So baker says use 85w for stock and a thinner for larger clutch packs?

Maybe Scott will jump in here for the rational as I'm not following.....

 

[spyderdog]

Appreciate the input, there looks to be a lot of opinions on the chaincase lube. My gut tells me they are probably all good, just some better than others, but this is not my main problem. Thanks for the advice.

 

[spyderdog]

Sounds like the bearings are bad inside the transmission. It looks like the Main shaft walked due to a loose pulley nut possibly, or worn bearings. Being an '05, it most likely has the old style Main shaft in it as well. That should be replaced if your going to do a rebuild. Check out my link below if you would like to have it rebuilt....
Some things to check would be any play at all on either side of the main shaft ( Primary side, Pulley side) If any play, then your bearings are worn and should be replaced. Another thing to check is the inner cages of the bearings, if your having a lot of play, most likely the bearings are bad. Have you had the inner primary off to verify the Counter shaft bolt has not loosened up and is pocking threw the plug seal?

http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/general/40563-transmission-rebuilding-service-all-types-385-a.html

I have not pulled the inner primary, I can and will though. Although i don't feel much play, iIt's probably a good idea to just get it rebuilt before more problems occur. I would really like to ride for a while, I just got it and right now all it does is sit there like a trophy, lol. I want to ride

 

[Bobby Schulz]

The mainshaft can walk inside the case causing problems. Easy way to tell is to take off the top cover, and the shift drum, to look for the alignment notch on the center of the gears. If they are not inline the shaft has moved inside the case. The mainshaft is only held in place by the bearings and I have seen them shift inside of the case.
When you have built as many of the baker DSSC transmissions as I have you see all kind of strange things. That was one of my reasons for getting some bearings special made for the builds I do. Not one single company makes a bearing that I thought worked well enough to hold up over the long term. Feel free to contact me. 704-989-2294

 

[JR03CHOPPER]

Although my bike is a little different...LSD and all...I had developed a primary leak. Turns out that the bearings on the main shaft failed. Like others said above. Also the trap door bearings failed. The shaft was wobbling which tore the seals that caused the leak. The shrapnel from the bearing failure chewed my gear set. Every gear had teeth knarled. I never knew I had a transmission problem. Shifted perfectly and I changed the fluid right after I bought the bike. It was due to have the fluid changed again now. Evidently, other than the fluid change I did last October, it had never been done before. It was an expensive find for sure! Total rebuild. Everything but the case had to be replaced. Best of luck to you. Hope you caught it in time.

 

[Moespeeds]

Bring the trans to somebody who can rebuild it. That mainshaft has moved for sure, and that will explain the rough shifting as well.

I know the primary fluid was beat to death already, but I once dumped a quart of 5-30 car oil into a guy's primary because we had to tighten his clutch hub nut on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere and that's all I could get. The dude left it in there for 2 years and 6k miles without a hitch. I think you could dump cooking oil in the primary and it'd be fine.

 

[spyderdog]

The mainshaft can walk inside the case causing problems. Easy way to tell is to take off the top cover, and the shift drum, to look for the alignment notch on the center of the gears. If they are not inline the shaft has moved inside the case. The mainshaft is only held in place by the bearings and I have seen them shift inside of the case.
When you have built as many of the baker DSSC transmissions as I have you see all kind of strange things. That was one of my reasons for getting some bearings special made for the builds I do. Not one single company makes a bearing that I thought worked well enough to hold up over the long term. Feel free to contact me. 704-989-2294

Bobby, Thanks for the help and advice :2thumbs: I am off to freeze my ass off in Wisconsin for Xmas. I have 5 days off over New Years that I am back in Florida. I will take the take the top cover off then and check with you then. Have a great holiday Dave

 

[Bobby Schulz]

Bobby, Thanks for the help and advice :2thumbs: I am off to freeze my ass off in Wisconsin for Xmas. I have 5 days off over New Years that I am back in Florida. I will take the take the top cover off then and check with you then. Have a great holiday Dave

No problem.