07 Bulldog Won't Turn On

Energy One

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
Hi Guys,

Well I have my first problem with my EFI Bulldog bike. Once while I was riding a month ago the engine just died. If I pressed the ON button and START the bike would restart while coasting. And then after I parked the bike in the garage after an all day ride, I went back out to check the trip mileage and when I turned on the key the speedo needle started to climb to reset but all stopped dead. No headlight no nothin! I turned off the key and on again, but all dead. I checked the EHC LEDs and when I would turn on the ignition switch it looked like almost ALL of the LEDs would come on except the GREEN. I gave up trying the switch so I accepted something had happened. About a half hour of cool down I tried the ignition switch again and this time the speedo reset and the engine would start - several times. Don't recall if the bike was riden since weather and all.

Well this Sunday it happed again while out on a group ride 50 miles from home. We stopped for fuel and when I tried to start-up, the bike was dead, same as before. I pushed it to the bar parking lot next door and began checking. Removed battery (+) cables to try EHC reset - no luck. All the same observations as the earlier incident. I decided to wait for a cool down again and grab a beer. When I returned to try it again - IT WORKED! Ignition ON speedo resets with LED idiot lights - hit RUN - START - let's head for home!

I have nothing heavy on the key ring. It's getting power to the EHC when the IGN switch turns on.

Circuit breaker fault - weak low current contact by heat?
Could the IGN SW be affected internally by engine heat?
Could it be and intermittent EHC or heat related EHC?
Wiring - seems more heat related at this point, but a weak connection at temp could be causing EHC startup checks to fail.
Can the EHC be accessed by the BDM PC program even when it won't come up? I'll talk to Beezer.

My bike is at BigdogBro2's garage and I plan to try it again after work.

Yes it's under warranty.
I'm electronics and mechanically savy and understand diagnostics.

Any experienced input would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Rob

UPDATE: 9/1/09
Replaced the IGN switch but no improvement. The old one was very sloppy on the detent clicks.
The harness connectors under the right side battery cover may have a loose wire or bad connection.
I'm checking into the IAC (Idle Air Controller) on the throttle body may be a cause. related?
The EHC now comes up and the speedo resets since checking the connectors.
Placed dielectric grease in all the connectors on the right side cover.
I didn't tie-wrap the cables and connectors as tight as before thinking the stress was pulling too much on the connectors.
 
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Gas Man

Cool isn't cheap
Calendar Participant
I don't think its in the FI system cause you aren't getting anything.

I would check the hand controls first.
 

DRBarnhart

Insert title here...
How's your battery? Got enough juice to start? Is it charging when the bike is running? :confused:

Dennis
 

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
Dies

Just rode to Howell sharks club for bike night and it died twice on the way over and once coming back. All three times it would restart by either pressing run then start or cycling the key and run then start.

The bike just dies and while coasting I can get it restarted.

The speedo needle hangs as well until restart.

Rob
 

RRRUFF

Well-Known Member
Tough call here Bro1. Mine was dying here a couple of months ago just as you say and I would restart and keep riding. I check all the connectors and such and found nothing. So I decided to remove the check valve in the gas cap and haven't had anymore problems. But yours sounds more electical. Check the tach circuit board for corrision I have read here that has caused some problems similar to yours and like Gas said maybe in the handle bar switches also. Check your ground connection from the battery at the starter also. Anyway hope you find the problem. Be sure to let us know what you find.
 

Gas Man

Cool isn't cheap
Calendar Participant
Did you pull the ehc connections and hit em up with di-electric grease. They're probably dry.

Also, check the battery connection for the ehc. small red wire with black shrink tubing over it.
 

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
I'll check the EHC connectors for grease as well. New speedo and mount upgrade just done, but ignition die problem I'm sure happend a few times before the speedo replacement.

Bike battery is in great condition and seems to charge well on long trips. On a tender otherwise. The EHC is going on the computer for a checkout on Friday at Beezer's.

Can the S&S EFI controller box and/or sensors cause an EHC error enough to shut down (kill) the engine while riding?

UPDATE: 9/07/09
Well I think we found a possible problem. After looking at the S&S EFI controller with the PC ProTune software we found a front O2 sensor malfunction. Beezer's checked out the connector and wires on both front and rear O2 sensors and found a black wire that was worn from rubbing against the oil pump line large hex nut edge. The rear O2 sensor short connector pigtail that exits the harness in front of the tranny. It wore through the harness cover into one of the black wire conductors. There are two black wires on this connector and both are grounds. One of the black ground wires runs to multiple sensors and is probably low voltage (5v signal ground). This wire group that was damaged was then covered with liquid tape and the connector was treated with dielectric grease before being rerouted. I also checked a added extra dielectric grease to the two large EHC main connectors, which both were clean and already greased.

I went for a 125 mile ride on Sunday and the bike never acted up once.

Thanks for the help!

Rob
 
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BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
Did it again!

UPDATE: 11/09/09
Well it happened again this Sunday 11/8/09, The dog stopped running.

At about 70 miles into the ride we stopped at the Wells near Irish Hills area, the bike ran fine all the way there. We had lunch about (1 ½ hours) and headed out for home. About 12-15 minutes out, the engine died.
The keyswitch was still on. I pressed RUN then START, the engine restarted and I drove on. For the next 45 miles the engine continued to die with increasing frequency until it wouldn’t restart any longer. As the engine would die, I would take mental notes on the condition of the speedo head operation. Here are my notes.

Engine would die while riding:
1. Clutch was engaged.
2. Keyswitch is ON.
3. Speedo needle stuck and sometimes act like a reset.
4. Tach LED bargraph operational. RPM declines with speed.
5. 67 degrees outside temp.
6. Engine idiot light ON
7. Didn’t notice any other LED’s ON
8. Pulled in clutch to coast.
9. Pressed RUN then START and engine restarted.
10. Continued riding.

This happed about 12-15 times occurring more often as time went on. Sometimes just seconds after restarting. The very last time this occurred the engine would not restart so I pulled over. I noticed that the speedo head was dead and the needle stuck at about 45 MPH.

1. Keyswitch ON.
2. Speedo head DEAD – NO lights.
3. Needle stuck at about 45 mph.
4. No restart possible.

I pulled off the seat and inspected the EHC LED’s and seen that ALL but two LED’s were on.

EHC-Right side of bike looking down from left side of bike.

The X’s indicate LED OFF.

-------Cover------------
Front OOOOOOOOX ---- connector
-side OOXOOOOOO ---- connector

I turned OFF the key and back ON again with the same LEDs coming ON several times in ten minutes. After sitting for about ten minutes I turned the key ON again to check the LED’s, and this time I left it on. In about 30 seconds all the LEDs flickered and remained ON. No speedo operation yet. I continued to watch the LEDs and about 5-10 seconds later the LEDs went out and back on in the normal operation mode, now with the BLUE LED ON. The speedo head came to life, the needle and lights RESET and were in normal mode again. I replaced the seat started the bike and headed for home. The bike ran fine on the way home without a glitch.

Here is the main question: Is having the LED pattern shown above a known designed OPERATIONAL MODE indication. IF not, then the EHC would indicate it having an intermittent failure and needs replacement.

Faulty oil pressure sensor?
Faulty cam sensor?
Faulty relay for fuel pump?

All connectors around EHC have been inspected and grease packed as you know. New keyswitch and speedo head with mount.


UPDATE: 11/25/09

Beezer's working with Bigdog found:
Battery tested in excellent condition. Always on a Battery Tender!

Check all the CRIMPED connectors that attach wires to the battery +/- terminals, especially the smaller 18ga. wires. The ring-tounge wire crimps on my 07 had the wires loose and ready to fall out causing too little current to run the EHC and would kill it.

Recrimped the connectors.

Mine seems to be running so far but not enough miles to tell yet.

UPDATE: 10/15/11

11k miles on bike now without any problem since recrimping.
 
Last edited:

Gas Man

Cool isn't cheap
Calendar Participant
Sounds like the ignition/FI pack.

Do you have a HID?

I remember House having a similar problem... I think his ended up burning down and had ohmster replace the ehc and fi units at mrytle beach.
 

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
Sounds like the ignition/FI pack.

Do you have a HID?

I remember House having a similar problem... I think his ended up burning down and had ohmster replace the ehc and fi units at mrytle beach.
Hi Gas,

Turned on the ignition after work the following day - the speedo head lit up, the needle started to reset but then went dead and the EHC LEDs had the above weird pattern again.

No HID installed - Seems to me that the LED pattern is invalid a would point to the EHC as the problem.


UPDATE: 11/25/09

Beezer's working with Bigdog found:
Battery tested in excellent condition. Always on a Battery Tender!

Check all the CRIMPED connectors that attach wires to the battery +/- terminals, especially the smaller 18ga. wires. The ring-tounge wire crimps on my 07 had the wires loose and ready to fall out causing too little current to run the EHC and would kill it.

Recrimped the connectors.

Mine seems to be running so far but not enough miles to tell yet.

UPDATE: 12/23/09

Went for several rides since the repair, one 20mi and last one at 50mi both without any problems. Temps in the 70's and sunny! I love AZ!

UPDATE: 4/22/10

Have been out a number of times without any further problems, Thanks to John and BDM!

UPDATE: 5/30/2010

I have riden over 500 miles since the wires were recrimped and have not had any further problems.
IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE EHC!

UPDATE: 6/22/2010

400+ more miles added since last update. Still running fine without further problems.

In this case it was a few 25 cent LOOSE wire crimps AND NOT THE EHC!

UPDATE: 5/9/11

Just turned over 7K miles recently. That's about 2500 miles since last problem occurred. ALL IS FINE...FIXED!!!

UPDATE: 10/16/2011
11k miles now on bike. Still running fine without further problems.
In this case it was a few 25 cent LOOSE wire crimps AND NOT THE EHC!




Rob
 
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robua373

Member
Did your horn beep for a split second, idiot lights light up and four way flashers start flashing. My 06 Ridgeback is having electrical problems all the above happends when bike dies then I am able to refire. T Byrd on this forum is having the same exact problem as myself, Thanks for ANY help.
 

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
Did your horn beep for a split second, idiot lights light up and four way flashers start flashing. My 06 Ridgeback is having electrical problems all the above happends when bike dies then I am able to refire. T Byrd on this forum is having the same exact problem as myself, Thanks for ANY help.
Sorry no horn beeps or idiot lights light up and four way flashers start flashing.

It was just like turning off the keyswitch.

UPDATE: 6/22/2010

400+ more miles added since last update. Still running fine without further problems.
In this case it was a few 25 cent LOOSE wire crimps AND NOT THE EHC!


UPDATE: 10/16/2011
11k miles now on bike. Still running fine without further problems.
In this case it was a few 25 cent LOOSE wire crimps AND NOT THE EHC!



Rob
 
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francoblay1

The Spaniard
Out of curiosity.... any more updates Rob?

It is good to see it is NOT always the EHC! I am still running with the original EHC on my 06 K9.

:cheers:
 

BigDogBro1

Made in the USA
Out of curiosity.... any more updates Rob?

It is good to see it is NOT always the EHC! I am still running with the original EHC on my 06 K9.

:cheers:
Update 12/18/12: 14K miles

Ever since the battery wire crimps were found loose and recrimped I haven't had any further problems with the bike shutting down. This winter Bro2 and I will be going through our bikes and checking the backbone harness condition under the fuel tank and doing maintenance.

I'm currently pulling the inverted front fork tubes off for an oil seal rebuild and other maintenance.

Tires, Bearings, brake pads, etc..

UPDATE 4/30/14: 35k miles
All electrical is still fine!
 
Last edited:

francoblay1

The Spaniard
Update 12/18/12: 14K miles

Ever since the battery wire crimps were found loose and recrimped I haven't had any further problems with the bike shutting down. This winter Bro2 and I will be going through our bikes and checking the backbone harness condition under the fuel tank and doing maintenance.

I'm currently pulling the inverted front fork tubes off for an oil seal rebuild and other maintenance.

Tires, Bearings, brake pads, etc..
:2thumbs: :cheers:
 
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