KaptinAmerika
Guru
Would it not start before or after you worked on the connectors this morning
Okay, I give... PLEASE HELP!!!
- Thread starter PitbullKC
- Start date
PitbullKC
Active Member
It wouldn't start at all this morning. Not once.
I did pull the plugs and visually checked for spark. And I did have spark.
But I don't have a spark check tool.
Not sure if this means anything, but I tested the 2 wires that go to my coil....
Using my multi-meter, I put the black/negative wire from my multi-meter on the negative battery terminal, and the red/positive wire from my multi-meter on one of the two wires that connect to my ignition COIL.
Before I pushed the "start" button they showed around 12.25v.
But when I pushed the "start" button, they dropped dramatically and then were kind of sporadic(jumped around).
The battery just started to get weak. So I put it back on the pulse charger & am taking a break.
I did pull the plugs and visually checked for spark. And I did have spark.
But I don't have a spark check tool.
Not sure if this means anything, but I tested the 2 wires that go to my coil....
Using my multi-meter, I put the black/negative wire from my multi-meter on the negative battery terminal, and the red/positive wire from my multi-meter on one of the two wires that connect to my ignition COIL.
Before I pushed the "start" button they showed around 12.25v.
But when I pushed the "start" button, they dropped dramatically and then were kind of sporadic(jumped around).
The battery just started to get weak. So I put it back on the pulse charger & am taking a break.
Diesel Dan
Well-Known Member
What did battery voltage drop to when you hit the start button?
DRBarnhart
Insert title here...
I may have missed this somewhere but what kind of ignition do you have? A stock '03 ignition is should only have two wires on the coil, a red and a yellow. Or I could be misunderstanding what you're saying, duh!
As it should be...
They should "jump around" consistently since the yellow wire goes "open" everytime the plugs fire.
Dennis
PitbullKC
Active Member
It's the stock Thunderheart Ignition Module (tested "good" by Thunderheart), and Thunderheart Cam Sensor/Trigger Plate (also tested "good").
With Dynatec Coil. Also sent in and tested "good".
The EHC is also stock. Thunderheart said its not one of theirs, but a copy of it.
It does only have 2 wires on the coil, red & yellow, like you said.
With Dynatec Coil. Also sent in and tested "good".
The EHC is also stock. Thunderheart said its not one of theirs, but a copy of it.
It does only have 2 wires on the coil, red & yellow, like you said.
Last edited:
I was having the same exact problem with my 03 Bulldog, the shop changed the vacuum hose, they jetted the carb, they changed the battery from the new one I bought which ended up being bad with a new one, they changed the gas cap , they changed the petcock under the tank and what made a huge difference is the gas tank must stay above 1/4 tank or it happens all again. The bike has been running perfect since.
PitbullKC
Active Member
What vacuum hose are you talking about?...The one that connects the split tanks?
From what it sounds like, you had/have an obstruction somewhere.
And possibly the same issue with mine.
I did empty the tank and inspect it, and also removed the petcock to inspect it too, but didn't find anything. But I still have to wonder if the tank liner is causing all this.
From what it sounds like, you had/have an obstruction somewhere.
And possibly the same issue with mine.
I did empty the tank and inspect it, and also removed the petcock to inspect it too, but didn't find anything. But I still have to wonder if the tank liner is causing all this.
Your liner floating all in there? Could be the problem but the last time I dealt with your same exact issue, the cause was the cam sensor. I tried (3) different stock types until I found one that worked. Stock meaning that (2) came new from Big Dog and the one that ended up working for me was one out of a Chopper that was given to me be a member here years ago. I think tha I still have another one at the house if you want to try it out.
I'l get it out to ya. Worth a shot with nothin' to lose.
bigdogtech01
Well-Known Member
The computer software and cable are a dealer ONLY tool. I have the program on my Laptop, only because I purchased the Laptop from the dealer once we knew we were closing down. The cable is USB one one end, Printer interface type on other.
I'm still feeling like something is wrong with either the EHC, or the wires going to it. I was pretty sure Tunder Heart made that EHC. But you said you already asked them?
That relay on bottom that's smashed can be replaced for less than $10 at a NAPA. I know it's used only for headlights and comp releases, but might be worth replacing just to make sure.
Also, double check wires going into EHC. You had said you were having problems with lights while you were moving them around...correct?
Keep in mind, just because your seeing spark at plug, does not mean it is 100% correct. It could be a weak spark that your seeing. Or, if module is so messed up, it could be out of time. Wish I was closer so I could help you better.
I'm still feeling like something is wrong with either the EHC, or the wires going to it. I was pretty sure Tunder Heart made that EHC. But you said you already asked them?
That relay on bottom that's smashed can be replaced for less than $10 at a NAPA. I know it's used only for headlights and comp releases, but might be worth replacing just to make sure.
Also, double check wires going into EHC. You had said you were having problems with lights while you were moving them around...correct?
Keep in mind, just because your seeing spark at plug, does not mean it is 100% correct. It could be a weak spark that your seeing. Or, if module is so messed up, it could be out of time. Wish I was closer so I could help you better.
Last edited:
PitbullKC
Active Member
Andrew, I emailed Thunderheart last Friday about the EHC & sent them a picture of it.
They called yesterday and said it was NOT one of there's, but a copy made by BigDog.
I actually replaced that relay in the EHC and accidentally broke the plastic cover while installing it. But for a few $, I may replace it again like you said, just in case.
Yes, the headlight was flickering while moving the EHC (J1 & J2 harness) around.
But yesterday I went through and checked/fixed all the wires going into the harness, and since then the headlight has been strong.
Is there a way to check the strength of the spark with a tool or something?
Also, are you referring to the "ignition module" that could possibly be so messed up that it could be out of time?
I did send the ignition module in to Thunderheart once already for testing, and they said it was "good".
I wish you were closer too. It may be worth flying you in just to keep my sanity!
They called yesterday and said it was NOT one of there's, but a copy made by BigDog.
I actually replaced that relay in the EHC and accidentally broke the plastic cover while installing it. But for a few $, I may replace it again like you said, just in case.
Yes, the headlight was flickering while moving the EHC (J1 & J2 harness) around.
But yesterday I went through and checked/fixed all the wires going into the harness, and since then the headlight has been strong.
Is there a way to check the strength of the spark with a tool or something?
Also, are you referring to the "ignition module" that could possibly be so messed up that it could be out of time?
I did send the ignition module in to Thunderheart once already for testing, and they said it was "good".
I wish you were closer too. It may be worth flying you in just to keep my sanity!
Diesel Dan
Well-Known Member
My Fault, I fuc*ed up..I forgot to mention in my previous thread on page 4 that the software I"am speaking of is OEM Diagnostic Software...My friend has it at his motorcycle repair shop,great tool.
Last edited:
Diesel Dan
Well-Known Member
Have U checked to see if your getting good strong spark yet...With a spark checking tool?? Where are you with this issue now?
PitbullKC
Active Member
I don't have an actual spark check tool, but visually, there is a spark.
As far as where I am with this.....Well, 5months later I am still at square one!:bang:
I still haven't even been able to narrow it down to whether its a 'fuel/air' problem, or an 'electrical/ehc/spark' problem.
I have been troubleshooting it like a mad-man, but just feel like I'm stuck spinning my wheels!
As far as where I am with this.....Well, 5months later I am still at square one!:bang:
I still haven't even been able to narrow it down to whether its a 'fuel/air' problem, or an 'electrical/ehc/spark' problem.
I have been troubleshooting it like a mad-man, but just feel like I'm stuck spinning my wheels!
Diesel Dan
Well-Known Member
Well,lets see.......This thing will start and run for 5 minutes or so,then it dies, Cranks over again and will not start.....First thing.....PURCHASE a spark checking tool,they are in-expensive...NEXT..fire up your bike,let it run untill it dies....NEXT,remove plugs and check for spark,PAY ATTENTION when cranking,it is good,strong,crackling spark,or just kinda wimpy,If you have no spark,YOU HAVE A electrical issue,either with the EHC or a ground somewhere....If you have spark and it still wont start,you have a fuel issue....You said you have replaced the ENTIRE IGNITON system already,right?? Other than that,I would recommend hauling it to Doug & Will,they r the Big Dog guru's in that area...Lemme know what ya find.....Wish we all lived closer,would love to help you with this issue..
Last edited:
PitbullKC
Active Member
I wished you lived closer to help too bro.
But I appreciate the time you've taken to share your wisdom on here!
I'll get ahold of a spark check tool and see if I can't figure something out.
As far as the Ignition System...I replaced the coil and cam sensor (trigger plate), I sent in the Thunderheart ignition module for testing & they said it was good.
If I don't make any progress soon, I'll be left with no choice but to take it down to Doug & Will's. But with Christmas coming up, its not the best time financially.
But I gotta get this thing runnin' before spring!
But I appreciate the time you've taken to share your wisdom on here!
I'll get ahold of a spark check tool and see if I can't figure something out.
As far as the Ignition System...I replaced the coil and cam sensor (trigger plate), I sent in the Thunderheart ignition module for testing & they said it was good.
If I don't make any progress soon, I'll be left with no choice but to take it down to Doug & Will's. But with Christmas coming up, its not the best time financially.
But I gotta get this thing runnin' before spring!
I'm going to run the generic gambit, plug in your effort and spit out mine.
Headlight flicker:
1. Connector not connected.
2. Wire out of connector.
3. Short to ground.
I know my connectors are in place. But, didn't someone spot #2 in that disconnected connector? That female pin screams 2-3. No, not short to ground, but "ground." Said another way, the troubleshooting 'list is LONG & Distinguished' and say, if it is not a wire out, a connector hanging, isn't ground more or less a poor flickering light connection? And wasn't that one pin the whole shebang for ignition too?
Carb:
1. Idle = Both main and low speeds are being sucked out of those holes. It is a linear blend no matter WOT position the throttle is in.
2. Float = I either have less gas to start and idle or I am pouring out fuel is a stuck open float.
3. Starts = All the time, right? I don't flicker, so, 'no no no, it ain't me, babe. It ain't me you're looking for, babe.'
Compression:
1. Yes it starts. Will a valve open under heat or expansion? When the engine cools down, it starts back up? Probably not is more the odds of the 3 variables here.
2. Drill it into your head(s) is the very first thing before you open the wallet...
3. WOT IS COMPRESSION? These are the 3-Amigos. The Bandits. Steal one, she is a boat anchor you do not make the first move is to eliminate one at a time.
Basic Variable Narrowedown:
1. Compression - No.
2. Fuel - No.
3. Spark - Yes. Why?
Flicker = Wire Variable. Why? Because everything in hard parts come back as 'Good' and flicker means loose wire.
3wV = 3 wire Variable:
1. (+) = 12v lead to fuse box out to the...
2... Jobber = The headlight-taillight-key switch-spark box-coil-Anything that needs a wire that goes in and comes out, then heads to...
3... (-) = Ground. From these 3wV's is one connection after the other until that flicker goes away.
So, are we not at a point where the wire finally might narrow down to #2 in the H-L Flicker Scenario list of variables? Now you have zero spark. Go back to that 3-4 pin and show it some integrity.
Take an ohm meter, sit it to infinity. Leave the connector alone. Back-probe both the male and female pins this way to see if they are connected inside the connector? This is how a 'phantom event' happens. The dealer can never duplicate it in other words. Sooooo...
You touch the connector and reconnect the pins, you'll more or less need to sneak up on it :roll:
Headlight flicker:
1. Connector not connected.
2. Wire out of connector.
3. Short to ground.
I know my connectors are in place. But, didn't someone spot #2 in that disconnected connector? That female pin screams 2-3. No, not short to ground, but "ground." Said another way, the troubleshooting 'list is LONG & Distinguished' and say, if it is not a wire out, a connector hanging, isn't ground more or less a poor flickering light connection? And wasn't that one pin the whole shebang for ignition too?
Carb:
1. Idle = Both main and low speeds are being sucked out of those holes. It is a linear blend no matter WOT position the throttle is in.
2. Float = I either have less gas to start and idle or I am pouring out fuel is a stuck open float.
3. Starts = All the time, right? I don't flicker, so, 'no no no, it ain't me, babe. It ain't me you're looking for, babe.'
Compression:
1. Yes it starts. Will a valve open under heat or expansion? When the engine cools down, it starts back up? Probably not is more the odds of the 3 variables here.
2. Drill it into your head(s) is the very first thing before you open the wallet...
3. WOT IS COMPRESSION? These are the 3-Amigos. The Bandits. Steal one, she is a boat anchor you do not make the first move is to eliminate one at a time.
Basic Variable Narrowedown:
1. Compression - No.
2. Fuel - No.
3. Spark - Yes. Why?
Flicker = Wire Variable. Why? Because everything in hard parts come back as 'Good' and flicker means loose wire.
3wV = 3 wire Variable:
1. (+) = 12v lead to fuse box out to the...
2... Jobber = The headlight-taillight-key switch-spark box-coil-Anything that needs a wire that goes in and comes out, then heads to...
3... (-) = Ground. From these 3wV's is one connection after the other until that flicker goes away.
So, are we not at a point where the wire finally might narrow down to #2 in the H-L Flicker Scenario list of variables? Now you have zero spark. Go back to that 3-4 pin and show it some integrity.
Take an ohm meter, sit it to infinity. Leave the connector alone. Back-probe both the male and female pins this way to see if they are connected inside the connector? This is how a 'phantom event' happens. The dealer can never duplicate it in other words. Sooooo...
You touch the connector and reconnect the pins, you'll more or less need to sneak up on it :roll:
