Front cylinder failure follow up

[toadstool]

This is a follow up to a previous post regarding a front cylinder failure. I had a loss of power and the front cylinder valve cover was cracked. Upon removing the cover today, I noticed the rear (number 3) roller rocker arm moves freely and the pushrod is not set in the arm any longer. Does anyone have any thoughts as to what may cause this issue? The roller rocker arm itself appears in good shape. I have never heard of a pushrod breaking. Please see picture.

 

[erldawg]

Did ya pop the shields off the push rod tube to see what it looked like?

 

[narow37]

broken valve stem? maybe

 

[toadstool]

I am not the most mechanical individual to grace the earth but I will try anything. Mechanic suspects push rod adjuster failure or tappet failure because the push rod is still under the arm and not above it as if it came loose during a high rev..... Is there a good way to check either of these? I will look at the push rod.

 

[shovelcowboy]

I am not the most mechanical individual to grace the earth but I will try anything. Mechanic suspects push rod adjuster failure or tappet failure because the push rod is still under the arm and not above it as if it came loose during a high rev..... Is there a good way to check either of these? I will look at the push rod.

In spite of your past posts and in spite of your labeling my comments as "retarded" on my "park bench analogy" (don't ever do that to my face!) for lawsuit-crazy America, I am going to try to take the 'High Road' here and try to help.

I looked for your previous post on the front cylinder failure and couldn't readily find it (so please post a link).

My advice is to really look into the history of what has been done to this bike (motor) and by whom. This kind of problem is usually due to someone adjusting something wrongly.

If you can pinpoint an issue in maintenance or adjustments prior to this problem, maybe go for the fix instead of the blame (unless it is flagrant).

If you are not sure how to fix this, then ask for a referral to a reputable shop in your area.

I know that there are numerous articles on this site about adjusting push rods and on S&S care and the net is full of helpful info on evo type motors.

I have both the S&S manuals for their motors and the K-9 service manuals if you need help.

I hope you can get up and running and enjoy your Big Dog as many on here have in the past and continue to do so!

Trying to sue a 'no-longer-in-business company') is in my opinion NOT your answer.

This is a sincere response and I hope we on this site can help.

Shovelcowboy

 

[BBChopper]

In spite of your past posts and in spite of your labeling my comments as "retarded" on my "park bench analogy" (don't ever do that to my face!) for lawsuit-crazy America, I am going to try to take the 'High Road' here and try to help.

I looked for your previous post on the front cylinder failure and couldn't readily find it (so please post a link).

My advice is to really look into the history of what has been done to this bike (motor) and by whom. This kind of problem is usually due to someone adjusting something wrongly.

If you can pinpoint an issue in maintenance or adjustments prior to this problem, maybe go for the fix instead of the blame (unless it is flagrant).

If you are not sure how to fix this, then ask for a referral to a reputable shop in your area.

I know that there are numerous articles on this site about adjusting push rods and on S&S care and the net is full of helpful info on evo type motors.

I have both the S&S manuals for their motors and the K-9 service manuals if you need help.

I hope you can get up and running and enjoy your Big Dog as many on here have in the past and continue to do so!

Trying to sue a 'no-longer-in-business company') is in my opinion NOT your answer.

This is a sincere response and I hope we on this site can help.

Shovelcowboy

:iagree:

 

[erldawg]

In spite of your past posts and in spite of your labeling my comments as "retarded" on my "park bench analogy" (don't ever do that to my face!) for lawsuit-crazy America, I am going to try to take the 'High Road' here and try to help.

I looked for your previous post on the front cylinder failure and couldn't readily find it (so please post a link).

My advice is to really look into the history of what has been done to this bike (motor) and by whom. This kind of problem is usually due to someone adjusting something wrongly.

If you are not sure how to fix this, then ask for a referral to a reputable shop in your area.

I know that there are numerous articles on this site about adjusting push rods and on S&S care and the net is full of helpful info on evo type motors.
Shovelcowboy

Here ya go pics and instructions on the valve adjustments..
http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/how/463-pushrod-adjustment-how-pics.html#post5398

 

[toadstool]

The previous post can be found here http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/general/37531-mystery-diagnosis-part-two.html
Terry Reed the owner of Reeds Racing Engines in Crestline, Ohio did the build and the bike ran as smooth as glass for about 1000 miles, absolutely flawless. Locally he is known for quality work and my impression of him is he truly cares and is very honest. My personal thought is that anything related to an error during the build would have shown up before now. I was getting on the bike pretty hard at the time of the incident but not redlining. I have not used the nitrous since the build so this is not a factor.
I appreciate the information provided thus far from this site. I will most likely have the bike taken back to Terry because he is the most knowledgeable with what has been done to the motor. I could struggle and tear the motor apart to find the issue, but I would end up doing more damage as I have little faith in my abilities.
The four bolts under the valve cover are intact. The rear rocker arm pivots freely but appears undamaged. The pushrod is no longer connected and seems to have dropped down a few millimeters. Has anyone ever seen this before? I will keep the site posted on the findings.
Just to set the record straight I never wanted to sue anyone. That was someone else’s thread that I commented on and in no way endorsed the act of suing. I apologize for any misunderstanding. Tempers were a little on the warm side and absolutely nothing productive happened from that mess. I suppose a carefully worded and well detailed posting of facts goes a lot further then something that comes off as simply whining.

 

[erldawg]

Jesse, Pop off the pushrod covers and look at the adjustment. Almost sounds like the push rod adjustment came loose. Will take u a whole 45 seconds...

 

[toadstool]

Jesse, Pop off the pushrod covers and look at the adjustment. Almost sounds like the push rod adjustment came loose. Will take u a whole 45 seconds...

Thanks, will do! :2thumbs: Also, thank you for bringing that great write up to my attention. I can handle step by step instructions with pictures.

 

[pknowles]

I'm. Not a mechanic but sounds like a steady diet of Harleys causes this kind of problems. all kidding aside the how to with pictures is really good.

 

[BigDogBro1]

I think the hydraulic litter collapsed at one point and allowed the pushrod to escape from the rockerarm. That is if the lifters are the hydraulic type and not solid adjustable type. With a 650 cam I would think solid lifters are needed.

Bent pushrod?

When you guys modify these engines you gotta expect to have some problems.

 

[BadBrad]

Sounds like one of two issues that are already noted. Either the pushrod locking nut came loose and the rod collapsed or you bent a pushrod. I would pull the rocker box stand off that holds the roller rockers in place and remove the pushrod from the top. Inspect it for straightness and check to see if you can turn it in or out, which would indicate your locking nut came loose.

 

[shovelcowboy]

Terry Reed the owner of Reeds Racing Engines in Crestline, Ohio did the build and the bike ran as smooth as glass for about 1000 miles, absolutely flawless. Locally he is known for quality work and my impression of him is he truly cares and is very honest. My personal thought is that anything related to an error during the build would have shown up before now. I was getting on the bike pretty hard at the time of the incident but not redlining. I have not used the nitrous since the build so this is not a factor.

I apologize for any misunderstanding. Tempers were a little on the warm side and absolutely nothing productive happened from that mess. I suppose a carefully worded and well detailed posting of facts goes a lot further then something that comes off as simply whining.

Jesse, I am curious as to why you didn't right away consult with the Reeds shop? Not to blame, but to ask them what they thought might have happened. I would think they might stand behind their work if it was something they did wrong. After all I would think you should have been able to expect more than 1000 miles on the motor work (I have a friend with a 124 S&S with major mods and the bike has run for many thousands of miles after the work). I also wanted to ask why in a thousand miles, you never tried the nitrous since you had it installed?

Also thanks for the apology but none necessary. It is very easy to get "sideways" on the internet. It just doesn't pay to argue or get upset on line.

Shovelcowboy

 

[toadstool]

Jesse, I am curious as to why you didn't right away consult with the Reeds shop? Not to blame, but to ask them what they thought might have happened. I would think they might stand behind their work if it was something they did wrong. After all I would think you should have been able to expect more than 1000 miles on the motor work (I have a friend with a 124 S&S with major mods and the bike has run for many thousands of miles after the work). I also wanted to ask why in a thousand miles, you never tried the nitrous since you had it installed?

Also thanks for the apology but none necessary. It is very easy to get "sideways" on the internet. It just doesn't pay to argue or get upset on line.

Shovelcowboy

Good questions. As soon as the bike was safely home, I did contact the shop and spoke to Terry. He suspected some or all of the four bolts under the valve cover broke and advised me to remove the cover and be back in contact with him. When I got around to having a look, I called him and left a message with the details of my findings. His shop is busy and there is a delay in getting the bike to him. I appreciate the information on the site and thought I may be able to hone my mechanical skills and try to save a little dough by seeking information.
I have not used the nitrous because I really only used it on the track when I would get an itch to go fast on a Friday night. Terry advised me not to use the nitrous with his build. Maybe he is being protective of his work, maybe he knows the limits of the parts… this hasn’t been something I was willing to test although others have said the 30hp shot isn’t anything serious and not to worry. I left the system on because it attracts looks, but is still very functional. In the mean time I purchased a built ZX10R ninja with 200rwhp that takes care of that itch just fine… and added nitrous.