Fed up with B.D. and S&S

KaptinAmerika · Jul 14, 2012

Damn
My 03 chopper was a lemon
I put up with it for almost three years and then spent 4 months, with the gracious help of the then manager of San Diego Coast Chopper "Marty", to have BDM buy it back. The final truce was me taking an 06 K9 plus about 9 grand to get back to where I was with the 03 chopper.
Then the shit mechanics in that same dealer proceeded to trash my new K9 before it even had 1000 miles on it. I won't go in to details as I have put it behind me.
They straightened everything out, eventually.
Then I made the mistake of believing a shop oowners recommendations and let them touch the top end of my 117, major mistake, which subsequently blew up on the dyno of another shop that was tuning the carb after the previous shop that worked on the top end wouldn't take care of some issues I was having.
Turns out the exhaust valve on the rear cylinder was just touching the piston which led to a lifter failure which led to the motor detonating like a damn grenade inside.
12000 dollars later and a new S&S 124
NO ONE TOUCHES MY RIDE NOW BUT ME and possibly S&S when the motor needs work.
Im not saying there aren't good reliable mechanics out there Im just saying there aren't any in my neck of the woods.
Now to the point

I FUCKING love my K9 and give a huge chest thump to the BD folks who made it a reality.

Juzzzz sayin

PINKY · Jul 14, 2012

I am sorry to hear that But if it is smoking i could be that S & S put the Piston rings upside down is the smoke coming from the front or rear cylinder ? Just saying i have came across
a motor where the valve seat was just hanging in the wind "loose" not seated & found the oil ring on the rear piston upside down? go figure and it came from harley?

hayseed · Jul 14, 2012

i bought a mastiff with a blown motor and now putting together the jigsaw puzzle --
going this route for motor -- 2012 SMW Proof Series Engines

cheaper than S&S (they have their own issues at times) .. will let you know as i go -- still gathering pieces...

wyatt580 · Jul 14, 2012

damn sometimes you just have to put things in perspective...mines on the lift now 5 months had sachs do the heads and got a big cam from mcgroom some other mods and its just waitin for me to finish...now the important stuff my wife took ill and my son is takin it hard so am i...not much you can do to fix us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but toys you can fuck with or have someone else do it....be happy you got 50yrs wrenchin...get somthin else or fix it with the help of the forum...fuck some people just dont get it......

Moespeeds · Jul 15, 2012

Stop crying and just do the top end. It's one weekend outa your life, it's not expensive, and you can see exactly what's goin on for yourself. Since you've been wrenching for 50 years I'm sure it's a piece of cake but just in case the S&S manual spells it out for you by the numbers. Only uncommon tool you'll need is the valve spring compressor but any shadetree mechanic will do the valve guides for you if you bring him the broken down heads for $50. Oh and fuck the break in procedure it was written by lawyers. Beat the piss outa it from day one so it knows who's boss. Now quit your bloopin' and get to work.

Nukeranger · Jul 15, 2012

Yeah,

What Moe said. My Weedeater took a dumb today. Should I complain or just fix/replace it?

Huw

narow37 · Jul 15, 2012

NICE, well said Moe

Mickeetwo · Jul 15, 2012

Nukeranger said:
Yeah,

What Moe said. My Weedeater took a dumb today. Should I complain or just fix/replace it?

Huw

Replace it

Little-Boo · Jul 15, 2012

Nukeranger said:
Yeah,

What Moe said. My Weedeater took a dumb today. Should I complain or just fix/replace it?

Huw

Replace it with a four legged weed eater (goat) and you will get the best of both worlds. After you fatten in up you can eat it and buy another. They cost less then a weed eater, they don't use gas or oil, and you won't need fertilizer it comes with the goat. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Just kidding around Nuke

Carlos :lol: :roll:

Nukeranger · Jul 15, 2012

Little-Boo said:
Replace it with a four legged weed eater (goat) and you will get the best of both worlds. After you fatten in up you can eat it and buy another. They cost less then a weed eater, they don't use gas or oil, and you won't need fertilizer it comes with the goat. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Just kidding around Nuke

Carlos :lol: :roll:

:roll: My wife has been recommending a goat for years. :roll:

jkd740 · Jul 15, 2012

Peckerwood said:
I'm not sure, but I think you all might want to cut Prodiver a little slack. I think many of us have a "love/hate" relationship with our dogs. Just got mine back from a solid month in the shop for re-wiring, new handlebar switches, etc. It was down a month last summer for ignition issues and peeling tank liner, too. There are times I get sick of this shit and would sell the bike for a song. But when it's running good, I'm lovin' it and you couldn't pry it out of my hands. When it's down, I find it a little difficult to keep my perspective (it's a CUSTOM, not a harley, and requires a bit more attention, effort, and patience). I think maybe prodiver was ridin' thru one of these lows when he posted. Let the man vent. He'll be smilin' when it's up and running.

Damn near my thoughts exactly!

toadstool · Jul 16, 2012

liferider said:
Custom means just that. It is not a Honda, it's not a Harley ( which are damn dependable), These are custom bikes and they require time and effort. You MUST stay on top of them. If you want a bike you never have to work on and can jump on and ride, go look at the Honda Fury. Enjoy the plastic!

Like I said in a earlier post, Need a price and need pictures to make your problem go away.

When I bought my Big Dog in 2008, it was one of 3,500 bikes made that year by BDM. What the hell is custom about a factory making 3,500 bikes…. Not a damn thing. You went into a dealership and bought a bike. You did not have any say in the frame, wheels, motor, etc. Custom my ass. For being mass produced, the reliability should be better. These bikes reliability factor is horrible at best. You can hide behind your myth that custom means constantly breaking down, but the truth is the engineering that went into these bikes sucks. Before you get all pissy again, if the engineering was so great, why is everyone jumping at the wire plus, thunderheart, and Dakota digital speedos? EXACTLY my point. Don’t slam someone for bitching, sometimes we need to vent. If Honda made a bike that looked as good as mine, I would buy it in a heartbeat because I know it would be reliable.
By the way, by your own definition a Honda Fury is more custom then a BigDog since only 6000 Fury’s were made. Sounds stupid doesn’t it. You had as much say on your bike as a Fury owner did on theirs… the paint color and that’s about it.

Peckerwood · Jul 16, 2012

toadstool said:
When I bought my Big Dog in 2008, it was one of 3,500 bikes made that year by BDM. What the hell is custom about a factory making 3,500 bikes…. Not a damn thing. You went into a dealership and bought a bike. You did not have any say in the frame, wheels, motor, etc. Custom my ass. For being mass produced, the reliability should be better. These bikes reliability factor is horrible at best. You can hide behind your myth that custom means constantly breaking down, but the truth is the engineering that went into these bikes sucks. Before you get all pissy again, if the engineering was so great, why is everyone jumping at the wire plus, thunderheart, and Dakota digital speedos? EXACTLY my point. Don’t slam someone for bitching, sometimes we need to vent. If Honda made a bike that looked as good as mine, I would buy it in a heartbeat because I know it would be reliable.
By the way, by your own definition a Honda Fury is more custom then a BigDog since only 6000 Fury’s were made. Sounds stupid doesn’t it. You had as much say on your bike as a Fury owner did on theirs… the paint color and that’s about it.

Perhaps "custom" is an incorrect term to use for Big Dogs, etc. Maybe "aftermarket" is more accurate. As we all know, many, if not most, of the parts on our dogs can be found in the Drag Spec. and other aftermarket catalogs. Thankfully, most of the aftermarket parts used by Big Dog were top quality. The real problem arises when Big Dog and AIH attempted to manufacture proprietary parts for their bikes instead of purchasing proven products from companies who have a long history of producing quality components.
I think one of the major differences between our bikes and Harleys, Furys, et. al. is the fact that the major manufacturers have extensive R&D departments and actually engineer the parts they use for their production bikes, and test them rather extensively before offering them for sale. Big Dogs may indeed be "mass produced", but the real problem, in my opinion, is that very little, IF ANY, "engineering" went into them. Hence the shitty ignition/electrical system, tank liners, etc. The only real engineering to be found on these bikes is done by Baker and S & S.

KnotSo · Jul 16, 2012

Before you get all pissy again, if the engineering was so great, why is everyone jumping at the wire plus, thunderheart, and Dakota digital speedos? EXACTLY my point

EVERYONE??
Strong word to be tossed around so easily.
Truth is, not everyone, only a few of the twenty eight thousand plus owners are buying these items. Fact is, many (if not most) have had few issues with their scoots and some have never had an issue. Some have had many problems. Still others have changed things and in doing so have created issues and then blame it on BDM.

I was just looking over many of your posts and found this comment:

I bought an amazing Big Dog bike in 08’ and should have stopped there. The bike looked and ran amazing.

That comment was in this post:

I feel physically ill, like I might vomit. The thought of how much money, time, and effort have been wasted is truly sickening. I hope at least one person can learn from my mistakes.

I bought an amazing Big Dog bike in 08’ and should have stopped there. The bike looked and ran amazing. I got greedy and wanted more power. I “researched” what I thought would be the best freaking combination of parts possible and bought them all – mistake number one.

Mistake number two was trying to find the best deal when it came time for someone else to install all these bright and shiny parts. I found a back yard Harley certified and trained mechanic to do the job. When I picked the bike up I could tell something wasn’t right. Once he had his cash he didn’t seem to care.

Mistake number three was when I bumped my head and thought I should try to make the Big Dog go as fast as humanly possible. For some reason I thought dumping a shit load of money into a Big Dog and “racing it” was a super idea.

I kept all receipts and realized I had spent $6454 in parts and labor to have a bike that produced near stock HP… and a lot of valve train noise. The parts didn’t work well together, the mechanic made serious errors, and I was essentially in worse shape.

I finally had enough and found someone who could actually help with all the problems. So…. the motor was taken apart and problem, after problem was addressed. There was so much shit wrong with that motor that I was amazed it made it to the shop. The cam was installed wrong, the cylinders were machined with flaws, and parts were damaged and prematurely worn. I felt buyers’ remorse in a huge way.

Then came the bill….$4054.02, to fix my screw ups. That is a total of well over $10K of essentially wasted money. Don’t take me wrong, the bike runs amazing. There is so much power I seriously slid out of the seat when I cracked the throttle on the way home. There is no more noise from the motor and it runs as smooth as silk. In hind sight, I much rather have saved 10K and had a perfectly good bike.

The clutch is slipping and will need updated, but the dyno shows 118 hp and 123 ft lbs. The mechanic feels a better clutch will add 3-4 of each. The nitrous is still jetted at 30 hp but wasn’t dyno’d. With the beefed up piston rings I could easily switch the jets to 50 hp.

I am going to try and refrain from mistake number five which would be using the nitrous and messing up the bottom end.

In summary, know what the hell you are doing before you regret it and be happy with the stock Dog.

So, your stock Mutt looked and ran amazing, then you made some changes and somehow it is BDM's fault? Amazing, simply amazing

In summary, know what the hell you are doing before you regret it and be happy with the stock Dog

bigdogtech01 · Jul 16, 2012

MIAMIVICE said:
Nobody here doesnt want to hear the truth....I think there should be a forum just for BD Gripes....Maybe if it would have started back then, retro-kits would have been developed quickly, Warranties would have been honored, and BD probably would have stayed in business cause they listen to the customer....Hell, they didnt even want to join the forum....News Flash..Once you change the bike and improve it, it's no longer a "Big Dog"....

This jackhole is still on this site? WTH!!! Bigdog payed out millions in warranty work. I have worked in H-D dealerships, Victory, American Ironhorse, Vengence, and Bigdog. No one covered more than Bigdog did. They had a full 2 yr warranty that covered pretty much everything. H-D would never cover as much as they did. They went under because of the shit ass economy, not because of bad customer service. Jackass!!

bigdogtech01 · Jul 16, 2012

prodiver said:
Yes that was my post in April 2010.. That was the first time the motor went. I do wrench on my bikes and I have had a service manual since I bought the damn thing. I have a 72 Shovelhead that I built when I was working for H.D. that took first place in the Oakland Roadster Show in 1986. I b built it from the ground up and I still ride it. I also have an 05 Road King and a Dodge Viper that I race. All of them combined have never given me as much problems as this Dam Big Dog. The motor originally had TP Rocker Boxes and I thought it might be the reason for the valve breaking. Everything was replaced with S&S. It has been serviced by the dealer and never been red lined or done a burn out. I use Royal Purple motor oil that has been changed religiously every 2 thousand miles. The only mods that have been done to it an oil cooler that I put on shortly after I bought the bike, a Wimer air cleaner and Vance & Hines 2 into 2 exhaust.. I bought the bike when I retired because we were going to do some traveling and I wanted something that was a little more reliable and a bit more comfortable then my shovelhead that I didn't have to wrench on. 25 years ago I put a 96in. kit from S&S in my shovel. The motor is in a rigid frame and has well over 100 thousand miles on it and the only thing I have done is adjust the lifters, 1 valve job and change the oil every 2K mi. and tighten loose nuts and bolts. The Road King I converted to a trike that my wife rides. I have been riding a wrenching on motor cycles and cars for more then 50 years and never had problems with reliability that I have had with this bike. There is just no god damn reason that I should have to tear this motor down with only 6k miles on it.

Did you hook the oil cooler up correctly? You might want to check to make sure the lines are hooked up the right way. Also, check your tappet screen. If the other motor had pieces blown up in it, it's possible S&S may have missed a few pieces and some is stuck inside the lifter screen. If it's pluged, you will not get propper oil flow to your top end. BUT...YOU should have been checking this with your servicing of the bike. Have you? With 6000 miles, you should have changed the oild at least 3 times. I would not trust that royal purple oil either. Get some good conventional oil and change it every 2000-2500 miles and run the piss out of it. Also remember, do your research on how to brake in a new motor. It's not the same as it was 50 yrs ago. Your motor should be 100% broken in within 200 miles, not 500 or 1000. Look it up, that's a fact. Hope you get it figured out...and please, let us know what you find.

toadstool · Jul 16, 2012

bigdogtech01 said:
This jackhole is still on this site? WTH!!! Bigdog payed out millions in warranty work. I have worked in H-D dealerships, Victory, American Ironhorse, Vengence, and Bigdog. No one covered more than Bigdog did. They had a full 2 yr warranty that covered pretty much everything. H-D would never cover as much as they did. They went under because of the shit ass economy, not because of bad customer service. Jackass!!

We are not in kindergarten. This is getting out of control, especially when we are chastised for grammar. Enough. It is obvious we have strong opinions. If you love your bike and dry hump it, that's fine. If you want to lite the thing on fire, that's fine too. This is a Big Dog forum. Last I looked it wasn't only a I worship Big Dog forum. I am allowed to feel, think, and express myself differently then you, and we should be able to without being attacked. Some days I love my bike, but right now I hate the damn thing.

Peckerwood · Jul 16, 2012

Well put, toadstool. "Can't we all just get along"? Enjoy the ride.

toadstool · Jul 16, 2012

KnotSo said:
EVERYONE??
Strong word to be tossed around so easily.
Truth is, not everyone, only a few of the twenty eight thousand plus owners are buying these items. Fact is, many (if not most) have had few issues with their scoots and some have never had an issue. Some have had many problems. Still others have changed things and in doing so have created issues and then blame it on BDM.

I was just looking over many of your posts and found this comment:

That comment was in this post:

So, your stock Mutt looked and ran amazing, then you made some changes and somehow it is BDM's fault? Amazing, simply amazing

I never ever said it was BDMs fault. Don't create words to support your point of view. As far as the modified EHC, you and 77% of this forum voted that they would do away with their BDM version for an aftermarket version. That's Damn close to "everyone" in my eyes.

Fed up with B.D. and S&S

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