My map is crap-ping out. Watt gives? Basics 101

[Sven]

The rest, not so much.

This thread is pretty much played out. I have one more section and those are the compensator sensors. This here is more the base timing, the backup, the flash and with a flash, flash means, toggle the hard settings without spitting a code.

So, that tuning ability does not clear up any AFR trimming. It still means, you need a pig to tune after you set the hard or the rpm limiter settings. Things like that.

I would think this is a troubleshooting guide to that hard setting and a piggy still needed. All I am doing is exposing the FI functions. Those basics are how you catch spark loss and phantom moves not related to the main sensor in question is the other thread installment.

I would think, I am still relating to the tech part of troubleshooting no matter how you look at it. The 3rd installment says there is not much left in the loop. Minimum basics stated here and you are on your own.

You will still have computer driveability/tuning problems. FI is filled with variables now. Much more than a carb/spring advancer/set of points kind of ignition system. This relates to diagnostics. It just has to sink in is the basic concept of FI. Some are seeing how it walks. At least, they see something in the abstract making sense.

FI only works one way, no? Cam timing is assembled one way or it's a tooth off. So, is one way that engine is assembled? You bet. And plenty of troubles galore there too.

 

[2004BC]

This thread is pretty much played out. I have one more section and those are the compensator sensors. This here is more the base timing, the backup, the flash and with a flash, flash means, toggle the hard settings without spitting a code.

So, that tuning ability does not clear up any AFR trimming. It still means, you need a pig to tune after you set the hard or the rpm limiter settings. Things like that.

I would think this is a troubleshooting guide to that hard setting and a piggy still needed. All I am doing is exposing the FI functions. Those basics are how you catch spark loss and phantom moves not related to the main sensor in question is the other thread installment.

I would think, I am still relating to the tech part of troubleshooting no matter how you look at it. The 3rd installment says there is not much left in the loop. Minimum basics stated here and you are on your own.

You will still have computer driveability/tuning problems. FI is filled with variables now. Much more than a carb/spring advancer/set of points kind of ignition system. This relates to diagnostics. It just has to sink in is the basic concept of FI. Some are seeing how it walks. At least, they see something in the abstract making sense.

FI only works one way, no? Cam timing is assembled one way or it's a tooth off. So, is one way that engine is assembled? You bet. And plenty of troubles galore there too.

Yes, your general observations on FI vs. NA (normally aspirated) internal combustion engines are sound and appreciated. However MOST FI applications on Big Dogs in this forum are not post amatuer rebuild mechanical issues (ie cam gear tooth off etc etc) nor involving fully user programable mapping from scratch (injector duty cycles, duration, timing curves, etc etc).
I guess you should consolidate most of your posts under one heading, " Theoretical Discussions on the Nuances of FI". But thank you for the tech tips anyways!

 

[Sven]

Motorcycle front fork axle setup universal.wmv - YouTube

Slow, watt you are saying is what Knee Cheeze was saying. If I was on some drug, you'd universally be all whack thinking the same thing? No, I make up some kind of you reading whack, but all of a sudden, I unscramble your brain(s), like the walk does not talk? :roll:

Man you will see I picked parts out of a shop manual. If that book is wrong, then so am I.

So universal are my posts. You have to think backwards or, since you know the carb and the single sensor (VOES)... Is not that somewatt, J-A? Are you on a tiny computer oriented bike, yes or no? So universal, then why the 1's and 0's click on the BD bikes too, is bet me!

You are watching LED's toggle ON/OFF or say it 1's and 0's is bet me! Bet me we are not on the same page 101 BET ME! <<< A beer.

I'm your joe average, step up to the parts is parts. This will change your mind about front end setup. I have off the wall clutch setups too. Still, they only assemble one way. Too bad you didn't watch that wire harness being built. I had to struggle with that one. All mickey moused on now, too late! Get it out of here!

I am an X to Y kind of guy is you Z the results, no? I square up shit is take a step backwards. Take the X to Y for wattitiZ.

One more pile out of my hair. I'm waiting for the big kick off.

Tell you what. Time goes buy so fast, by the time your next bike comes along, you'll be ready for it. I rather the old lady read this stuff. So when she comes out in the garage looking for you, stands over your shoulder, points to the, 'Ya left the clustizz pod connector off... That's why it's not running... Dinner's ready'... Is WATTime looking for. Makes you look like a ... She showing you the WATT-4!

All in fun wit bikes universal. :loony::up:

 

[2004BC]

Nice shovel. What year? Engine worked? Here's an 81 I built and a 50 in a softail frame that is taking me longer than Moses!

 

[BBChopper]

Dude needs a new Chrome Canuter Valve!:2thumbs:

 

[Sven]

Hey, yours also, 200. I like the bar setup. Looks comfortable. This is a 78, according to the engine numbers. Well, depends on what you mean by engine work? Bored/guides/seats/small end bushings/valves/pistons.

A few guys here will tell you the story. This is not my bike. I'm just dedicating the build to someone. I was at another website, guy exposed himself, meaning, he came to my defense.

Get this... Over book procedure. I'm building this shovel, hear the same shit wherever I go. I make comment in a post, if you can imagine. I think someone with an evo website gave me the boot too? Put the evo together. Put this shovel together. Did I need the websites? Guess not?

Love that deed thing. They have the problem bike. I make some good deed about helping out. I get kicked in the nuts for it. 'Every goodeedeserves DEV.' Like the mirror is out before you make a move did you get served or watt?

Everyone has a problem, I post some sort of direction to follow. I open the shop manual. It has all the answers. I quote book procedure. One of the members goes shehootea. I say, check your key knew tear valve. The guy starts crying. I say no, the other valve. He bolts out the door. They vote me off the island. Shehootears comes back to the fold.

I fold my glass is open, I'm out in the dark. They are still dry testing a running engine without oil. I said, you can tell another way without burning up the top end up. The whole place goes wild. Dish is are in the air. Sand witch is are flying around the room without a broom. It's was mess! Utter chaos.

You shoulda been there. It was hilarious. They'll tell ya. I woulda paid to get in and watch it all go down. :roll:

This bike is dedicated to that forgotten soldier(s) that covered my back [when I wasn't even there].

 

[pknowles]

Morning Sven, I extended your offer to the old lady and she says"no thanks, don't need a dildo around here". In all honesty I do appreaciate you information on FI. I am fighting a low speed(Idle) miss(Spark?) on her 07 fi harley, rear cylinder. Checked the plug, wires, and coil. Any thoughts.?

Morning Sven, Tried the spray mist on all wire last night and no "light Show". hooked up the timing light and it shows an intermittent miss at idle. Rev it up and the miss goes away. Light shuts off at higher rpms on either cylinder with no misfire past idle. It's not the wires, coil, spark plug, or ecm. Any more thoughts and thanks for the other tips.

 

[BigDogBro1]

Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) could have a bad spot in it at the idle position causing the ECM to react wrong. Connect S&S Protune2 and review the TPS data on the dashboard to see if it's irratic at idle area.

Sorry, thought you were talking about the FI dog.

"Connect S&S Protune2 and review the TPS data on the dashboard to see if it's irratic at idle area."

 

[GDOG_PITBULL]

Where does the power commander go on that bike and did you write a new algorithm for it?
G

 

[pknowles]

Where does the power commander go on that bike and did you write a new algorithm for it?
G

Running a race tuner. Ran great first 1000 miles. Then picked up this miss at idle. Rear cylinder.

 

[stlmikie]

Hey P. I know you said you checked the plug and wire but did you swap the plug and wire by chance? Front to back kind of deal?

Running a race tuner. Ran great first 1000 miles. Then picked up this miss at idle. Rear cylinder.

 

[Sven]

Morning. Running a piggy over the OEM? Okay, this is just a quick check if it is a fuel glitch, not an electrical glitch or say it is an electrical glitch, this is the removal wire.

At the piggy fuel cutter, remove the hot side of the unit. Why not ground? Because the unit uses a ground. If you remove ground, hot is still in the loop. It can be grounded by the injector's ground wire, still draw a hot signal. By removing the hot side of the the piggy unit, it breaks the ground's loop on the bike's side. Start and blip throttle. See if the unit is the cause?

I sort of do and do not question the TPS. It is like saying, you need to check the ignition, when all the parts are fixed. Once the TPS is dialed in, it either codes or is within that range. It does not take much to move from that slot, send a code, [now] this is your problem area. But without a code, it is more a waste to move the TPS if all of a sudden, a 1000 miles ago, a unit was installed. Now the TPS takes a shit?

 

[Sven]

H... did you swap the plug and wire by chance? Front to back kind of deal?

Good call.

 

[pknowles]

Good call.

Plugs ad wires are all good, a little history on the bike so we are all on the same page. In Feb. of this year I installed a 103 cubic inch kit on this bike along with a 575 s&s easy start cam and screaming eagle heads. After rebuild, the bike ran great for the first 1000+- miles and then picked up this idle miss on the rear cylinder. I went thru all the normal checks and even swapped out all the critical parts with my 2011 harley heritage with the same results. The f**ked up thing is the miss isn't constant. It just comes back at random times. other than the miss at idle the bike runs strong. Also after the rebuild i had the local harley remap with the race tuner. It's got to be something simple that I'm missing. I'll check Sevns suggestions tonight after work. thanks for all the input.

 

[Sven]

... the miss isn't constant. It just comes back at random times. other than the miss at idle the bike runs strong.

Other than a low idle miss, I'd have a scored guide that would still be scoring and seize, I would believe? I would then think cam lobe, but not when it comes and goes. I would have to assume the gall would keep the valve open at higher rpm if not gall the stop, tag a piston, we found the problem. I would also have to rule out the cam lobe. Runs at random miss. The cam would be the constant. The gall would be the constant. The mechanical is sort of ruled out?

Also after the rebuild i had the local harley remap with the race tuner.

Back to spark or fuel? We may have removed parts off the harley onto this bike, but we didn't change out plugs. Random spark is a fouling plug. Bike has a map. Map has more fuel. Map loads up the bottom. Sometimes the pull away clears it, sometimes not?

Spark plug if cracked, was what that mist and jump would have done. Once cracked, it does funny misses. Low speed miss and/or low speed hesitation, needs to be on the same page:

Low speed miss = Broken plug/deteriorating plug wire/smoked tips at either end of the wire or inside the coil plug-in/black powder peppered over the plug's porcelain.

Low speed hez = Dirty air cleaner/Clogged up muffler bearing/Mapiss Crapiss... Instead of, map is crisp from bottom to top.

 

[Sven]

Crash bike revised ~ Chopper Build #3

Bulletproofull

 

[Sven]

Here comes a slight controversy stl can clue you in on. Unless you want to chase your tail like finding compression first before you ever open a tool drawer. There is a carb adjustment thread out there. Why not I answer it here. This is carb related to tuning, we are now in the air screw adjusting of the tuneup.

Tuneup and tuning are two different ways to adjust the bike. One is blueprint, the other is massaging the parts, i.e., port it, degree cams, pig it.

However, this tool is called a manometer. This shows the linear. You are more or less, removing the toilet lid, pushing the ball up and down trying to find the best stop, meaning, stop the flow.

The filling of the tank is linear in filling, yes? Correct. This manometer acts as that ballcock in the toilet. You want peak float, in other words. Are we seeing a pattern here with the twisted sisters website, Mikie?

Embarrassed their ass is threw me out. They have no clue about this air screwing business. How you can damage both body and needle with all this move it in and bottom it out, turn it out crap? Easier than you think.

If your manometer was hooked up, you move it till it peaks. You know by turning it in, the liquid will drop. That way, you will be far away from that taper before you ever get to touching that needle to the body's hole. No harm, no foul... Sorta pun.

The ear tuning is for the backyard novice. The manometer is ultimate tuning going after the qualifier question. WOT is the qualifier question? There is only one number.

 

[pknowles]

Other than a low idle miss, I'd have a scored guide that would still be scoring and seize, I would believe? I would then think cam lobe, but not when it comes and goes. I would have to assume the gall would keep the valve open at higher rpm if not gall the stop, tag a piston, we found the problem. I would also have to rule out the cam lobe. Runs at random miss. The cam would be the constant. The gall would be the constant. The mechanical is sort of ruled out?

Back to spark or fuel? We may have removed parts off the harley onto this bike, but we didn't change out plugs. Random spark is a fouling plug. Bike has a map. Map has more fuel. Map loads up the bottom. Sometimes the pull away clears it, sometimes not?

Spark plug if cracked, was what that mist and jump would have done. Once cracked, it does funny misses. Low speed miss and/or low speed hesitation, needs to be on the same page:

Low speed miss = Broken plug/deteriorating plug wire/smoked tips at either end of the wire or inside the coil plug-in/black powder peppered over the plug's porcelain.

Low speed hez = Dirty air cleaner/Clogged up muffler bearing/Mapiss Crapiss... Instead of, map is crisp from bottom to top.

Haven't had time to check the fuel injectors yet, but as I stated before, the timing light shows a miss-fire on the rear cylinder at idle. I am almost positive it's on the electrical side. The plugs and wires are all good and connected in the right order.

 

[stlmikie]

I do agree. I think it's a shame that people get so bent over it. Cause they don't get it.

Here comes a slight controversy stl can clue you in on. Unless you want to chase your tail like finding compression first before you ever open a tool drawer. There is a carb adjustment thread out there. Why not I answer it here. This is carb related to tuning, we are now in the air screw adjusting of the tuneup.

Tuneup and tuning are two different ways to adjust the bike. One is blueprint, the other is massaging the parts, i.e., port it, degree cams, pig it.

However, this tool is called a manometer. This shows the linear. You are more or less, removing the toilet lid, pushing the ball up and down trying to find the best stop, meaning, stop the flow.

The filling of the tank is linear in filling, yes? Correct. This manometer acts as that ballcock in the toilet. You want peak float, in other words. Are we seeing a pattern here with the twisted sisters website, Mikie?

Embarrassed their ass is threw me out. They have no clue about this air screwing business. How you can damage both body and needle with all this move it in and bottom it out, turn it out crap? Easier than you think.

If your manometer was hooked up, you move it till it peaks. You know by turning it in, the liquid will drop. That way, you will be far away from that taper before you ever get to touching that needle to the body's hole. No harm, no foul... Sorta pun.

The ear tuning is for the backyard novice. The manometer is ultimate tuning going after the qualifier question. WOT is the qualifier question? There is only one number.

 

[Sven]

The plugs and wires are all good and connected in the right order.

This says:

1. Coil
2. Wire
3. Plug

If we have one coil, 2 leads out, then the front coil should misfire too. Eliminate coil.

If we have you following your diagnostics, 'it is not the wires,' lets assume they are fine, you cleared that list. It is not the wire.

If we narrow down to the last variable? Could it be as easy as a fouling plug? Change the plugs around. I'd rather not mess with the plug holes. I rather use new plugs with their fresh crush washers. Save those threads as much as possible.