Oil Change Questions and the Scavenger system

[Gatlin5]

Bike: 2001 Prosport
Engine:Total Performance 107CI
4500 Miles

Looks likes I either have a Problem while using the Scavenger system or possibly a mechanic's error has shown itself.
I purchased this Bike a few months ago. Did an oil change today with my Scavenger RC101 for big evo's as recommended by Scavenger. I had it set up as per instructions and video. Lined the holes vertically, Plug in the top hole and drain in bottom. Tried 3 different times setting it but each time all my oil wanted to come out of the center hole, nothing out of the bottom drain line. I'm concerned because I know the previous owner had a bunch of work done on the Engine and I'm wondering if they possibly reinstalled the oil lines in reverse to the filter. The lines to the filter are stacked on top of one another(front to back) Looks like the engine driven pump line goes to the filters top/front connection that looks like it goes to the center of the filter. Any thoughts?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Gatlin5]

Went to the TP Engine site and found this diagram on their Oil feed of the Classic Oil Pump. I went out to the bike and if I am reading the oil filter mounting base properly it is fed backwards.

or pdf:http://www.tpengines.com/webstore/connection%20%20Diagram%20-%20Oil%20Pump,%20Classic.pdf


I have been troubleshooting a problem with the bike that has taken up to now two months to work out. It would quit after any where from 2 to 15 miles depending on what kind of riding I was doing. Found 2 problems initially; 1st one plug wire had a nice hole in it, replaced both. 2nd a week later same symptoms, petcock filter had tank liner on it and had to have the tank relined. Now it quits after about 15 miles and will only restart after it has cooled down for about 15 minutes. I was thinking maybe the ignition system overheating but my ass would really get hot on the seat. I'm sure this issue of lines mis routed could sure create an overheating situation if the engine isn't getting proper oil flow.

The previous owner had given the bike shop I purchased the bike from an invoice showing he had $5,500 worth of engine work he had done by a shop in NH. That should have scared me off right there.

Now I wonder if this could of caused any damage to the engine.

Any thoughts?


I Apologize for the long winded post.

 

[woodbutcher]

not a problem. as far as it quitting after about 15 miles, make sure the gas cap vent is working properly. most people with the problem just remove the piece in the cap. when you ride it again and it quits, remove the cap and see if you have a vacuum release.

as far as the lines go, i guess all you can do is try to put them back the way they need to be and hope for the best. hopefully it hasn't been shutting down from overheating.

 

[Gatlin5]

not a problem. as far as it quitting after about 15 miles, make sure the gas cap vent is working properly. most people with the problem just remove the piece in the cap. when you ride it again and it quits, remove the cap and see if you have a vacuum release.

Thanks for the reply.

When I was originally troubleshooting the problems I used this site reading all the different threads. I checked the cap at the start and it was fine, it was this site that led me to the petcock filter, then the tank liner and even the company who relined the tanks for me.

I'm pretty sure it is over heating and shutting itself down.

 

[awg]

If the lines were reversed wont that affect oil pressure? And then wouldn;t the light come on? I would figure if it was a problem the motor would have blown up by now.

 

[Tim]

Can you upload pictures of your oil line configuration?

Sounds like something is not right.

 

[stlmikie]

As far as the quitting while riding may it be the cam or crank sensor? After the bike warms it quits? That's where I would check.

 

[Gatlin5]

As far as the quitting while riding may it be the cam or crank sensor? After the bike warms it quits? That's where I would check.

That's where I was going to head next after reading some of the other threads. But I felt first things first with this issue and then see if it still has the same symptoms, Thanks Mike for the input, gives some confidence I may be headed in the right direction.


Tim, I'll go out and take a few pictures and get them uploaded. Thanks.

 

[stlmikie]

Just fire it up and hit it with a hair dryer or a heat gun. If it cuts out there you have it. They are fairly easy to change out as well.

 

[Gatlin5]

Just fire it up and hit it with a hair dryer or a heat gun. If it cuts out there you have it. They are fairly easy to change out as well.

Great Idea, thanks.

 

[Gatlin5]

Here are the 3 pictures from the tank to the filter. Got a return reply from Phil at Rogue Chopper tonight and he made it sound like it's a common occurrence, that they are swapped.

 

[Gatlin5]

If the lines were reversed wont that affect oil pressure? And then wouldn;t the light come on? I would figure if it was a problem the motor would have blown up by now.

you're right if it was creating a problem with oil I should of had the red light come on, it hasn't. And the bike really runs great until it gets up to temp say thirty minutes into a ride, then you have to let it cool down for 10 to 15 mintues.

 

[reloaderbmg]

problum with filter getting the oil flowing backwards is less filter area inside the filter & im not shure if these filters have anti drain back flap at could
stop oil flow all together!:zz2cents:
i would go with crank sensor first.

 

[2000 wolf]

I have the red line in your pic going to the block where your orange line is. Swap out the two lines at the tank and you should be fine.

 

[Gatlin5]

Thanks Guys for the good input.

As I said previously, I heard back from Phil from Rogue Chopper who markets the Scavenger system and his comment was that it is not unusual for them to hear that the lines have been reversed.

I also posted the question to Total Performance who built the engine for Big Dog and is also where that flow chart above came from. Their comment: " issue of lines mis routed could sure create an overheating situation if the engine isn't getting proper oil flow." At this point I would route the oil lines correctly and see if the engine will run better, at the same time listen to the engine for any unusual noises or engine nocking.

So my plan is to swap the lines at the filter and leave everything else alone. Then hope for the best and see if I still have an overheating problem. I'll update the thread for what it's worth. Maybe some of this can help some one else in the future. There have been some great threads on troubleshooting but some of them you never hear if the problem has been resolved and what actually worked.

Thanks again for the replys! :up:

 

[Gatlin5]

I have the red line in your pic going to the block where your orange line is. Swap out the two lines at the tank and you should be fine.

Jim, Thanks for the reply. In the TP diagram above they show that out put of the tank where my orange line is a the vent. On my engine it goes to the lower end just above the oil pump and the vent comes out at the lower end just below the oil pump. Is yours a Total Performance engine or an S&S ? That may be the difference or maybe I have even more issues, wouldn't doubt it from what I have already uncovered on this bike.

Thanks again,

Joe

 

[Gatlin5]

Update:

Well, I finally had sometime to pull the 2 solid oil lines off from the center hole of the filter to the pump (blue arrows) and return line from the filter (inside red line) to the tank. Who ever put these back on after doing all this engine work put the outside (Blue) line in backwards and in the wrong filter connection. If you look at the picture the blue line undulates in and out and does nothing but go straight in line and angled up into connection, no need for all those turns the way they have it hooked up here. So, when I took them out and flipped the blue around it goes perfectly from the pump right into the rear connection or inlet of the filter and the bend allows the that line to get out of the way of the line coming out of the front connection or center hole back to the tank, as per TP's diagram. Oh, one other problem now, they beat the piss out of the straight angleg line (red) to make it fit into the wrong connection, you can see one of the dings or crimps peeking from behind the blue line. I'll be going to the Harley dealer tomorrow to see if I can get a number of o-rings for the hard connections and a new piece of pipe. Otherwise, I'll be ordering some 3/8 ss lines, fittings and a bender so I can really clean it up, maybe get rid of some other flexible lines as I have time.

I'll take pictures when I'm complete and put it side by side with the old picture so you can compare.

Blue- Line from Engine Driven oil pump, it is correct from the pump but it should be going into the rear hole of the filter. When I flipped it around it does it perfectly and the bends allows the Red line returning to the tank to by pass it and go into the front hole/ center hole of filter if it wasn't forced out of shape doing it incorrectly.
This set up was filtering the oil in reverse and according to TP restricting amount of proper oil flow.

I have had a overheating situation going on. My hope is this will correct it. If it doesn't I'll start another thread and list all the corrections made to date so you guys can help me figure out what might still be going on. I'll hope for the best for now. Thanks for all your help.

See note in box concerning feeds at the filter.

 

[woodbutcher]

thanks for keeping us in the loop. this is the way it should be for others to learn from. thanks again.

 

[Gatlin5]

Tom, thanks for the compliment. I have used the site quite extensively and I noticed that that was happening quite often and found it a little frustrating when trying to research a problem I was having. I have learned so much here in such a short time, it is such an awesome resource to have this social network of Big Dog people, the least I could do in return is follow through on wrapping up a thread I started and you all helped me through. So, I'm the one who really appreciates all the help. Thanks. :2thumbs:

 

[Gatlin5]

Update after swapping lines around 05/05/2011

I went to the Harley dealer and a few others and no one could help me find the oil lines and seals I needed. Even went over to Home Depot and purchased some 3/8" chrome sink risers, a cutter and a bender and try to make my own. After a lot of trial an effort I decided to use the old line that was beat up plus the old seals for now. I was dying to get it working and do a little riding. If anyone knows where I can get replacement lines would appreciate the referrals. I will try a couple of the vendors here.

Anyways here are the before and after pictures. In the after picture you can see how badly they beat up the straight line to force it to work and if you look at how nice the offset line gets out of the way of the front line there was no need for it if it was done right the first time. As far as the overheating situation, I still have it but I'll start a new thread on that after I try a few things that have already been recommended. Thanks again guys for your help.

Before Picture: This oil filter is being fed in reverse, the lines are crossed. In this picture oil is being force through the center hole of the filter and returned through the perimeter or outer holes.

After Picture This is the correct oil line placement. Oil should flow in through the perimeter holes(inside line or Blue arrow) and flow out and return back to the tank from the center hole(Red Arrow)