Dead Dog on the side of the road

[WRM66]

Yesterday, a buddy and I are jammin across town to meet up with some other people when out of the blue my bike died. I coasted to the side of the road and even b4 I stopped i hit the run button and the start button and it fired up and off we went again for about another mile and then it killed over again and this time EVERYTHING was dead. Long story short, my buddy rode back home, got his truck and trailer and we got it home and started checking things out.... Battery good(fully chargered) checked the terminals, the overload wasn't popped, all fuses good but no juice to nothing.......lights, horn, blickers....nothing.....WTMF ??
It's an '08 Ridgeback. EHC maybe?

 

[Raywood]

Amazing the EHC always gets the blame!

If you have no power to anything then you need to change down the power source. How do you know that battery is good. Did you load test it. All terminals are tight? Ground wire didn't come off on either end?

Even if the EHC was bad (and there are few problems with them now a days) you would have power to something if the battery was good.

Keep us posted

 

[bdmridgeback]

Now that I am selling Wire-Plus modules full scale now, I am selling to, and getting calls from BDM dealers/shops that Wire-Plus is referring to me. The EHC thing is a much bigger problem than what you think. I spoke with a dealer friday and another one today that say they do multiple EHC jobs a week! I spoke with a old BDM service center last week that no longer does warranty work, and he has two bikes sitting in his shop now with EHC's gone out of them.

The EHC is blamed because 95-98% of the times that the bike dies, it is due to the EHC in one way or another. Either because it just shut down because of a voltage spike or because it burnt up.

The EHC should have more protection built in if it is such a delicate electronic module, to protect itself from spikes of the crude charging systems that are on these bikes.

Either way, there may not be as many 08 and 09 bikes failing out of the gates, but give them a few thousand miles and they are still dropping like flies. The 2004-07 EHC's are still going bad left and right.

I'm not saying this just because I sell these modules, but becuse since I started selling them, I know speak to alot more service shops and hear the stories.

WRM66, I vote that it is the EHC, if what you have tested is correct.

 

[Big Mike]

So, Bdmridgeback,

I was wondering if one of the Bdm shops that contacted you was Oak Grove Choppers in Milwaukie, Oregon?

I told them about this website and particularly the wire-plus because they mentioned they replace a lot of them.

I told them when mine goes, I'm doing this kit.

They had not heard of this elimination kit, but they were very interested. Sounded like they were going to research it.

BTW, I love my air cleaner screen!!!

 

[LDO]

I don't doubt the 'goodness' of the wire plus module but I think that in order to make a fair assessment on component failures, there would have to be some sort of data collected on the EHCs that were turned in as 'suspected bad' to see if they were indeed faulty.

Been working on aircraft electronics a very long time and when we turn in a piece of gear multiple times or we suspect a trend in component failure, we request an engineering investigation and all these components that fail (fleet wide) are sent to the engineers for testing to see if they are actually bad.

I guess my point is that I'd be interested in seeing how many EHC's that were either replaced with a new EHC or a wire plus module were tested and found A799 (code for no defect found).

Problem is that there is prolly a very low number of testable assets since most folks throw them in the trash can, fire, garbage disposal, etc...

 

[Little-Boo]

Yesterday, a buddy and I are jammin across town to meet up with some other people when out of the blue my bike died. I coasted to the side of the road and even b4 I stopped i hit the run button and the start button and it fired up and off we went again for about another mile and then it killed over again and this time EVERYTHING was dead. Long story short, my buddy rode back home, got his truck and trailer and we got it home and started checking things out.... Battery good(fully chargered) checked the terminals, the overload wasn't popped, all fuses good but no juice to nothing.......lights, horn, blickers....nothing.....WTMF ??
It's an '08 Ridgeback. EHC maybe?

Sorry to hear your problems WRM66, but should you need an EHC, I have one that came off my 06 Mastiff when I changed over to the Wire Plus. I never had any problems with my EHC, but decided to change it out while my bike was down for engine up grades. I think it will fit provided your dog is carbureted (sp). If you are interested let me Know $150 shipped is a lot better than 330 Plus shipping.

Carlos

 

[BigDogBro1]

Sorry to hear about you misfortune.

I forget who I was talking to about BDM EHC modules but they were from BDM. This person did mention that a large number (80%) of EHC returns were perfectly functional and checked out in working order. I'm not saying that all the 80% returned units would then reliably work in the field due to intermittent and latent failures.

I do question the diagnostic thoroughness of many service techs nowadays. Chasing black box problems is not always as easy as a flow chart.

Enjoy the summer and ride!

 

[RRRUFF]

I agree with LDO to some extent.:argue: My experience here in the southeast is that most shops know squat about the BDM electronics and will diagnose a faulty EHC right out of the gate and look no further. I believe that most of the time the EHC's are failing due to some other problem and gets replaced and the problem is still there. I have a guy that I work with that has a similar problem except he has to turn off the ignition and then it will re-start. So he and I think that there is an intermittent with the key switch. Anyway I think the "Wire Plus" is a good fix for faulty BDM EHC, but look for what took it out in the first place. Could be something as simple as a loose wire connection. My 2 cents worth.

 

[bdmridgeback]

So, Bdmridgeback,

I was wondering if one of the Bdm shops that contacted you was Oak Grove Choppers in Milwaukie, Oregon?

I told them about this website and particularly the wire-plus because they mentioned they replace a lot of them.

I told them when mine goes, I'm doing this kit.

They had not heard of this elimination kit, but they were very interested. Sounded like they were going to research it.

BTW, I love my air cleaner screen!!!

Yes it was, I spoke with john at Oak Grove the other day.
Seems like a great guy and says he has plans to do some business with me on the WP modules.

Thanks for the referral for sure, I appreciate it greatly! :2thumbs:

 

[TheDeadOne]

Yesterday, a buddy and I are jammin across town to meet up with some other people when out of the blue my bike died. we got it home and started checking things out....Battery good(fully chargered) checked the terminals, the overload wasn't popped, all fuses good but no juice to nothing.......lights, horn, blickers....nothing.....WTMF ??
It's an '08 Ridgeback. EHC maybe?

Trust Me!....It could have been much worse!

Call Jake and place an order! :2thumbs:

 

[bdmridgeback]

I agree with LDO to some extent.:argue: My experience here in the southeast is that most shops know squat about the BDM electronics and will diagnose a faulty EHC right out of the gate and look no further. I believe that most of the time the EHC's are failing due to some other problem and gets replaced and the problem is still there. I have a guy that I work with that has a similar problem except he has to turn off the ignition and then it will re-start. So he and I think that there is an intermittent with the key switch. Anyway I think the "Wire Plus" is a good fix for faulty BDM EHC, but look for what took it out in the first place. Could be something as simple as a loose wire connection. My 2 cents worth.

That is the main problem though to a "T" !
I agree, most EHC's are not defective, but something in the bike shutting down the EHC.

The EHC is so sensitive to water shorts, or high/low voltage spikes that just shut it down or lock it up. Water may have gotten into the speedo, turn signal, or license plate light and corroded the terminals to a point of not a short, but more resistance on that circuit. That in turn locks up the EHC or takes out that part of the EHC. The EHC when sent in will test fine.

But, putting the Wire-Plus module, or even a bank of 6-8 relays to control all the hand controls and turn signals allows that higher resistance in the corrosion areas to still work because the corrosion doesn't shut down a relay until that circuit corrodes enough to fail itself.

So I say that the entire water issue, Old Voltage Regulators, and faulty Speedos all add to insult on the EHC not being able to function when these things are put to it. If the EHC functioned all the controls at full voltage and higher resistance, there would be less issues for sure with it.

(1) I have actually seen a water logged, corroded speedo on a bike that the headlight quit working on, get replaced, and the headlight started working after the speedo was replaced!

(2) A shorted out turn signal wire in the rear strut shut down a EHC while riding.

 

[V]

That is the main problem though to a "T" !
I agree, most EHC's are not defective, but something in the bike shutting down the EHC.

The EHC is so sensitive to water shorts, or high/low voltage spikes that just shut it down or lock it up. Water may have gotten into the speedo, turn signal, or license plate light and corroded the terminals to a point of not a short, but more resistance on that circuit. That in turn locks up the EHC or takes out that part of the EHC. The EHC when sent in will test fine.

But, putting the Wire-Plus module, or even a bank of 6-8 relays to control all the hand controls and turn signals allows that higher resistance in the corrosion areas to still work because the corrosion doesn't shut down a relay until that circuit corrodes enough to fail itself.

So I say that the entire water issue, Old Voltage Regulators, and faulty Speedos all add to insult on the EHC not being able to function when these things are put to it. If the EHC functioned all the controls at full voltage and higher resistance, there would be less issues for sure with it.

(1) I have actually seen a water logged, corroded speedo on a bike that the headlight quit working on, get replaced, and the headlight started working after the speedo was replaced!

(2) A shorted out turn signal wire in the rear strut shut down a EHC while riding.

Yea that makes sense. On my old bike water got in the left control switches (got caught in heavy rain) and made the oil pressure light come on. I limped the bike back thinking I had a prob and hit the turn signal at the shop and the oil light went out. Dried it out and everything was okay :loony:

 

[TheDeadOne]

These EHCs are very, very temperamental to all sorts of issues. Low Battery Voltage, Current In-rush from charging system during low battery conditions. Voltage Spikes during voltage regulation switching (from on to off), (lack of)weather tight seals on housings containing PC boards such as hand controls, tag lights, brake/turn/marker lights..ect. Wiring connectors becoming corroded or oxidized creating bad connections and resistance increases (aka high current conditions). The list goes on, believe me. These things are much too temperamental for the required uses it needed for.

 

[lee]

this does all seem to make sense. So in short (pardon the pun) the EHC is so sensitive that if it detects there is a very minor anomaly somewhere, which could otherwise be harmless, or at least only affect one component, it can shut the whole bike down and leave you stranded? Also very difficult to trouble shoot then because you have no tangible clue as to the source of the problem

 

[Marco Polo]

My '09 Wolf with less then 500 miles left me stranded today with what appears to be a dead starter and when I called BDM to see about warranty coverage of the tow cost the tech I spoke to said "hmm... EHC on a brand new '09...?" as if he was thinking aloud. So apparently it's not just the dealers who jump to that conclusion now. I'm pretty sure my problem is the starter and not EHC related at all but I sure wouldn't be surprised after reading how many EHCs get replaced.

 

[Scorpio69]

I need to replace the ECH on my 04 ridgeback. does anyone have one for sale???

 

[bdmridgeback]

this does all seem to make sense. So in short (pardon the pun) the EHC is so sensitive that if it detects there is a very minor anomaly somewhere, which could otherwise be harmless, or at least only affect one component, it can shut the whole bike down and leave you stranded? Also very difficult to trouble shoot then because you have no tangible clue as to the source of the problem

Exactly Lee,

For instance the Speedo/Tach ring can corrode do to water. It in turn can cause the headlight to quit working if the high beam indicator is shorted. But if you pull the plug and do a test, it will test fine. Only way to test is with very sensitive resistance reading across the circuit. With the Wire-Plus module, you could fill the damn speedo/tach housing up with water and it won't affect anything except the speedo/tach not working itself.

 

[TheDeadOne]

I believe that one of the inherent problems with the EHCs is the "self protection circuits". If the expected norms of any input or output lines vary outside of a given parameter, the EHC resets to protect itself. Thus, creating havoc or failures with the other components such as ignition, lights, horn...ect. That's why some bikes can be restarted instantly with no signs of any problems.
Who knows? Not to be busting anyone's chops here, but even BDM has made so many revisions to the EHC, I'm not sure if they even know what it's going to take to fix these issues anymore.
But that's just "some" of my thoughts on the problem, but who am I? NOBODY!

 

[Big Mike]

Yes it was, I spoke with john at Oak Grove the other day.
Seems like a great guy and says he has plans to do some business with me on the WP modules.

Thanks for the referral for sure, I appreciate it greatly! :2thumbs:

I had a feelin. That's good to know. I hope he follows through!!:2thumbs:

 

[WRM66]

Sorry, I've been away a few days.....thanks for all the imput guys.......it was the EHC. BDM dearler said they 3 bikes in there for the same thing. also said big dog is considering a factory recall on 08 and 09 models for this. the basic rundown I got on it was that it is a combonation of things that ultimately shorts out and frys the EHC....something with the key switch. They replaced the key switch, EHC and the battery because apparently when it frys it kills a cell or two in the battery that appears to be fully charged when checked with a meter, but only draws about 4-5 volts when put under a load.(as in starting)....they got me in and out in a day and a half and 100% covered under warranty. They tell me Big Dog has been aware of this problem since last year and has redesigned the replacement parts to ensure in problem doesn't happen again.