Sudden oil and smoke from exhaust both cylinders

[2005 Chopper]

'05 117 in with TP rocker boxes. Just change the oil. Took her out for a 30 mile ride today. She seemed to run great. When I got home the idle was kind of high so I was messing with it all of a sudden starts running rough and then it starts blowing smoke and I mean a lot of it first out of the rear pipe then out of both then oil's coming out of the tailpipe and it's black oil not fresh. Took off the return from the oil filter and it's pumping. The oil was a little low I start putting oil in it and it sucked up a full quart. Like it pumped it in the motor but it all ain't coming back like maybe it's not draining from The Rocker boxes. After it sat for a while as I was checking the oil return line checking the screen in the oil pump which was clean. Turn it over without the plugs in it all that trying to check oil flow. And I started it back up and it seemed to run fine for maybe 8 Seconds going to start blowing oil smoke out the pipe again. Any advice what to look for next?

 

[chubs]

just curious, how much old oil did you drain out before you put the new oil in? Also, where did you drain the old oil out from?

 

[2005 Chopper]

Don't really know for sure. Just drained it out of the oil tank. Didn't think to check how much came out in the pan. Not even sure how much I put in. I buy the S&S oil in the two and a half gallon jug. I usually change oil every couple thousand miles. Change the oil filter and filled it with fresh oil before I put it on. I pull the plugs and and turn it over for a bit makes your oil is flowing before I start it. She ran good and smooth strong. Got Back was adjusting the idle mixture and set screw. Died a couple times but started right back up. Then all of a sudden started belting out white smoke. Got it last year. Whoever had it before I got it was a shit mechanic. Only had 5,000 miles on it. Still had the original Avon tires. I've had to reseal a lot of shit change the seals in the front end. So I'm sure the valve stem seals probably dried out a bit but she's never burned oil that you notice. No noise or chattering the top end. I suspect the oil is not draining out of The Rocker boxes. Whether it be a clog up top or maybe the pump not pulling it out of the sump and it's not draining out of the rocker boxes because the cases are flooded with oil?

 

[chubs]

I can't help but think there's too much oil in there. How did you manage to fill the filter with oil and reinstall it without dumping oil all over the place? reason I asked about the amount of oil out and oil in is because I saw someone get to much oil in and it looked like they were fogging for mosquitoes when it went down the street. After they drained oil back out, it stopped smoking fairly quick and they haven't had any issues since. That's been a couple years back and it was an 06 K-9 with a 117 inch motor.

 

[2005 Chopper]

I don't fill the filter all the way. Doesn't lose much. Thinking it through, The Rocker boxes got to be flooded the way the oils running out of the pipes. Wouldn't be a clog up top both cylinder started pretty much the same time so I don't see both cylinders clogging at the same time. Cases of got to be flooded. You may be right. I'll pull the plug on the bottom of the cases see what comes out. Never have pulled that plug anyway. Thanks for your input I'll let you know how she goes

 

[chubs]

I don't fill the filter all the way. Doesn't lose much. Thinking it through, The Rocker boxes got to be flooded the way the oils running out of the pipes. Wouldn't be a clog up top both cylinder started pretty much the same time so I don't see both cylinders clogging at the same time. Cases of got to be flooded. You may be right. I'll pull the plug on the bottom of the cases see what comes out. Never have pulled that plug anyway. Thanks for your input I'll let you know how she goes

When you pull the oil back out, try to keep track of the amount you get from the bottom crank case and the oil reservoir. I'm sure someone with a lot more smarts than I've got will come on and give more help than I can offer,

 

[HMAN]

Be freaking careful with that case plug. Screw it up n ur screwed. Its a tapered plug. Dont crossthread going back in. Stupid question....did you use the wrong filter? Heard of them getting switched up and causing issues. Just my thoughts.

 

[2005 Chopper]

Yeah I'm going to get after it this weekend. Start with draining everything taking a look. Good thing about the TP Rocker Box covers four screws and they're off. I really want to get rid of the tp's put some S&S rocker boxes on it like it should be. I've seen a lot of bad views on the TP rocker boxes. Really been kind of wanting to pull the heads see how the valve guides look put new seals on them.

 

[knothead]

Sounds like it wet sumped and then more oil got added and now to full...that will make one do exactly what your describing....drain everything completely and refill with oil and it should be fine...

Oil tanks under the seat will tend to do that because the ball is not seating correctly inside the pump, either a little trash in the pump or a weak spring, and the oil tank is up higher than the pump..long periods of setting the oil will seep by and fill the motor...then you check the oil and its low then you add more oil then it's to full and will blow oil and smoke like it's on fire.

 

[2005 Chopper]

You think I should go ahead and pull the pump or maybe pull out the ball and spring clean the hole out?

 

[chubs]

I think I'd follow knothead's suggestion before starting to disassemble things, possibly creating other issues. If it didn't have the smoking issue until after the oil change, I wouldn't think something mechanical suddenly decided to fail. Like I mentioned up in post#4 , the smoke didn't start till the oil change, and cleared up after the oil was drained and the proper amount was put in without touching anything else. Your bike-Your call.

 

[2005 Chopper]

Yep that's what I'll do. Be great if that's all it takes. Less wrenching more riding

 

[knothead]

You think I should go ahead and pull the pump or maybe pull out the ball and spring clean the hole out?

No dont take the pump apart...just make sure you get all the oil out of it and refill it

 

[2005 Chopper]

Then that's what I'll do. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Mickmorris]

Then that's what I'll do. I'll let you know how it goes.

Buy a oil scavenger to get the oil from the crankcase. I’m with HMAN on not removing the plug underneath from the case. The scavenger will get the old nasty 22 or so ounces out of the crankcase for you without having the worry of messing up the threads in the case.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Buy a oil scavenger to get the oil from the crankcase. I’m with HMAN on not removing the plug underneath from the case. The scavenger will get the old nasty 22 or so ounces out of the crankcase for you without having the worry of messing up the threads in the case.

Agreed. It will also stop potential problems of starting with a dry sump -- My first oil change on my first bike (non-hd) I couldn't find the drain plug, so I pull the plug from the crank case -- didn't get enough oil out so I call a mechanic and he just about freaked out -- no no no put that back in I'll wait.
Dude everything that;s coming out is alreay out -- too late.
Had the bike in the trailer and took it to his place so we could find the drain plug. Pulled the plugs and hot the starter for a couple of time to circulate some oil and then re-installed the plugs. Bike was fine.
I've had a scavenger for years -- use it every 2nd or 3rd oil change at least.

 

[DynoDave]

 

[2005 Chopper]

Okay, but if my cases are flooded with oil and I don't drain it out and I use the sump method won't I be putting oil back into the cases as it's going out of the sump and therefore still have too much oil in the cases or will it pump out faster than it's going in??

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

the scavenger will let you get all the dirty oil out of the sump and then you're good to go.
Basically you take off the filter and put the scavenger on and the return oil exits the hose into a jar, when its clean stop engine, replace filter, check oil level and fill as needed.

 

[SKOGDOG]

Seems like one way to get too much oil in a BD 117 would be to change the oil on a cold engine—-IF the engine had been sitting and the oil drained into the sump (the culprit here usually the check valve-mentioned above). When you drain the reservoir (no scavenger), it would be easy to overfill because the sump is holding more oil than designed. If you run the engine and change the oil hot, the oil pump will circulate the oil into the reservoir.
First thing to do is fill the reservoir with oil-- then start the bike—there is immediate oil pressure. No moments of zero oil pressure like cars with a splash-type oil pan system.
Q: If I was oil where would I go?
A: From reservoir to the oil pump to the galleries for engine distribution—gravity draining to the sump thru the filter back to the reservoir. (rinse and repeat)
IMHO fooling with the sump drain plug is dangerous for two reasons, both involving aluminum—cross-threading and stripping. Either reason enough to leave it the hell alone. If you screw it up, you can’t get at it……
Technically you have two oil pumps—hi and lo pressure sides—hi pressure feeds engine and lo feeds filter to reservoir.