nine lives
Active Member
Yeh, ring....ding....ding but that piston slap................very distinct sound, know when shit's going bad.
S&S 117 What's the Difference Between the 05 & 08 Models
- Thread starter RRRUFF
- Start date
john sachs
Well-Known Member
I don't think they will make a difference in noise.
You checked that a pushrod is not rubbing on a p/rod tube ?
Does this noise sound consistently even from cylinder to cylinder ?
John
nine lives
Active Member
John, you know how we were in a pissing match about valve train noise and piston slap? Went for a short ride yesterday(100 Miles) was very hot mid 90s heard the noise again, guess what? It maybe piston slap. I won't know till I take the top end off. But as I said there is a difference in the noise. Piston slap I've noticed happens when cruising at speed letting off then easing into the throttle, you get a slap noise, can happen at other times also, but this is when I found it to be most prevalent.On any of my bikes, I never let it get so bad that it's slapping all the time even on race bikes. So, I think there maybe two things at work here, loud valve train noise and some slap. As I said it's not bad, a bit louder when hot, as long as it doesn't get any worse, it will be fine untill I do a winter tear down. If I find the jugs out of round, you'll be the first to know.
Last edited:
RRRUFF
Well-Known Member
John, I've checked the pushrod tubes no rubbing there, the noise seems to be consistent front and rear but seems to be more noticable on the left side and it seems to be near the top of engine. I am going to try the old stethscope method later and try to pin point the noise. I sent an email to S&S about this and here is their reply.
Quote: you may have travel limiters in the tappets I would recommend removing
them. Also BDM used a different manufacture for valve springs. When BDM
started taking S&S assembled motors they used our conical single spring,
and non roller rocker which made the motor much quieter.
Thanks,
S&S
Can you comment on that? Again two of my friends have 08s and they are quite. Do you think this is the answer?
Quote: you may have travel limiters in the tappets I would recommend removing
them. Also BDM used a different manufacture for valve springs. When BDM
started taking S&S assembled motors they used our conical single spring,
and non roller rocker which made the motor much quieter.
Thanks,
S&S
Can you comment on that? Again two of my friends have 08s and they are quite. Do you think this is the answer?
V
Guru
What you're sayin about the noise sounds like valve train. My 08 tickin sound comes from the left hand side at the top rockers. My 05 did the same. The 05 manual from Big Dog had a foot note that if excessive valvetrain noise was present adjust the pushrods to 3 turns in lieu of 4 turns. I'm runnin 3 1/2 turns on my 08 with 590 cam and its not bad.
nine lives
Active Member
RRRuff, just for the record, I do not have limited travel lifters, checked the last time I adjusted them which a was about a month ago.
john sachs
Well-Known Member
9,
No pissing match.I can't hear your motor noise.or Richs' either.I'm just suggesting another area to look into.
I do a lot of S&S motors,and find some have piston slap.
Rich,
S&S is saying that anything other than their beehive springs are noisy?That their roller rockers are noisy as well?They bought Crane,and sell a sh*t load of those springs,which by the way myself and others have used for over 20 years with no noise issue.
Without hearing the noise,I still lean towards piston slap.
John
No pissing match.I can't hear your motor noise.or Richs' either.I'm just suggesting another area to look into.
I do a lot of S&S motors,and find some have piston slap.
Rich,
S&S is saying that anything other than their beehive springs are noisy?That their roller rockers are noisy as well?They bought Crane,and sell a sh*t load of those springs,which by the way myself and others have used for over 20 years with no noise issue.
Without hearing the noise,I still lean towards piston slap.
John
nine lives
Active Member
John, how far out have you found the jugs to be? Were these motors relatively low hour motors? How the hell can a new motor be bored oval? Do they start out true and distort? Is it all the way down the cylinder or just at the skirt? Sorry for all the questions, just asking.
Five Five
Well-Known Member
So Ruff ...what was the resolution to the problemLooking for info here! What's the difference between the 05 & 08 or later S&S 117 engines. I know the valves, springs, rockers, & rocker boxes are different but what else? The reason I am asking is the level of valve train noise. I have two friends with 08's one carbureted the other fuel injected both of these engines have virtually no valve train noise. I have swaped my 05 TP rocker boxes, rockers, to S&S and had the heads reworked with larger valves, heavier springs & brought the compression ratio up. Swaped out my stock cam for and S&S 600 cam. So now I think my 117 is a full S&S. I had hoped that going to the full S&S set up would do two things, 1) quite the top end down and 2) correct the valve to rocker mis-alignment issue. The alignment I believe is corrected but I still have alot of valve train noise. I have adjusted the valves 4 turns and 3 turns and I run Mobile 1 full synthetic with an oil additive. My 05 sounds fine when I first start it up but after the engine gets hot it gets very noisy. I know these engine valve trains can be quited because I hear later models running as quite as a church mouse. So what's the difference in the 05/06's and the 08's and later engines?
TCALZ06
Well-Known Member
This was the problem I had at 18000 miles. motor used no oil and seemed fine on power. When the heads came off she was a loose as a $5 whoreI've done quite a few S&S 600 cam(gentle cam) motors,and never really run into valvetrain noise when the valves are adjusted properly.S&S pushrods...4 turns. With travel limiters...Tight,backoff (1/2 turn),so you can just turn them with your fingers.
I have however run into a lot of aftermarket big motors,with out of round cylinders,and way too much piston to wall clearence.Usually quiet on start up ,and progessively gets noisy as the engine warms up.
Piston slap does have a metallic tap to it,and is sometimes confused with valvetrain noise.
Have no idea how many people are hearing the noise.
John
Since my exhaust is very loud it was hard to hear.
My rebuild is much smoother and quiet. My shop did a trick putting their hands over the exhaust to hear the top end while the engine was running right at start up. My new one is dead quiet.
I have Johns heads, carb and 600 cam
Five Five
Well-Known Member
You have a good setup Tom... I'm still researching for my build.... for now im just going to run the shit out of this motor and slowly build an inventory of replacment parts...We have a lot good motor builders here in the So Cal area ... but I will probably send it to John because of his reputation here on the forum and I have come to trust his work and knowledge
"five"
RRRUFF
Well-Known Member
Five Five, I pretty much went with John's recommendations. After I tore the engine down I found the rear cylinder was out of round and I had it bored out .010 over. John also did the head work which included larger valves, heavier springs, 600 cam, better valve quides, and John machined the heads to increase compression. I also replaced the primary tensioning shoe and it was recommended to go back to RevTec oil in the primary. I think some of my noise was coming from the primary. This seemed to quite everything down a good bite. John also did some work on venting my crankcase. I went all S&S by the way except the springs maybe, they were what John recommended but I think they are S&S also. I am pretty pleased with it now and getting ready to swap out my E carb to a G. I may also go back to dino oil instead of the Mobile synthetic in the crankcase to see if any difference. Also I would highly recommend the multi-layered metal head gaskets. I was told they would not leak and good so far.
Oh and by the way when I tore mine down I also found considerable mis-alignment between the valves and the TP rocker arms which wore down my valve quides. I put up some pics on this somewhere.
Oh and by the way when I tore mine down I also found considerable mis-alignment between the valves and the TP rocker arms which wore down my valve quides. I put up some pics on this somewhere.
Five Five
Well-Known Member
Thanks Ruff for the reply and update .... your upgrade is right in alignment with my rebuild ....hey another question, you running the stock clutch or has that been upgraded too
Thanks,
"Five"