Need your thoughts
- Thread starter carpetman
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DRBarnhart
Insert title here...
I'm with you there!
The only potential problem I see is that carpetman is looking for a power supply that switches "ON" when the bike is running then "OFF" when it's not. If he were to wire a power relay to horn control (A29) he'd only have power while he was holding the button and as far as using the same "switched" wire as EFI bikes, the EHC's are different and I don't think there's a wire at pin A20 on the carbureted version for him to use.
Dennis
DRBarnhart
Insert title here...
For a 20A draw he'll have to get it directly from the battery (with a FUSE) but the coil of the relay wouldn't draw much...
Dennis
PurpleDog
Well-Known Member
The only serious current draw we are talking about as far as I can tell is from his fuel pump. If that were wired to a switched relay (wired to switched/trigger input) and wired to battery for draw load; it could have been done imo using Air Ride ckt [keep in mind I was not aware he was using full throttle micro switch either]. I would think he could purge with either horn or HI/Low once switched to Air Ride mode.
I'm just sharing ideas/thoughts to maybe trick it out using existing ckts; just my thoughts on it is all. I'm sure everyone would come up with different solutions....
PurpleDog
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I've been busy trying to square away my air ride; anyway, so let me see if I can help you understand what I am talking about. (if interested)
You can engage and disengage the latched output with a single pulse from a switch or an output from an alarm or remote keyless entry with the setups below for example. The first pulse from the switch will engage the latch. The next pulse from the switch will disengage the latch. You'd need a diode with this setup (4 relay's):
Here's the same configuration as the one above that you can use if you do not have any *diodes available and/or only want to use SPDT relays. (5 relays without diode):
So to me, I believe you could still use factory wiring/switch ckts (AirRide) to latch switch constant 12v from battery to fuel pump / solenoids. It'd be more work, but a trick custom install that might be worth the effort. Otherwise, what type and where are you going to mount accessible switches etc?
Well, you asked for thoughts on it....and those are mine....
You can engage and disengage the latched output with a single pulse from a switch or an output from an alarm or remote keyless entry with the setups below for example. The first pulse from the switch will engage the latch. The next pulse from the switch will disengage the latch. You'd need a diode with this setup (4 relay's):
Here's the same configuration as the one above that you can use if you do not have any *diodes available and/or only want to use SPDT relays. (5 relays without diode):
So to me, I believe you could still use factory wiring/switch ckts (AirRide) to latch switch constant 12v from battery to fuel pump / solenoids. It'd be more work, but a trick custom install that might be worth the effort. Otherwise, what type and where are you going to mount accessible switches etc?
Well, you asked for thoughts on it....and those are mine....
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carpetman
Member
Jim tks for the info; I'm in the design stage now for a mounting bracket for my gauges and switches. My desige will be something like Arlen Ness"s oil pressure gauge rocker box mount but bigger to hold my gauges and the 3 switches. After that is built and all my stuff is in place I'll start wireing. This was my thought in the beging 30amp reply from batt +and-, then to the 3 solenoids, this will be the arming switch witch also will have my micro switch to engauge the relay. 2. Next same power sourse Batt to fuse to fuel
carpetman
Member
Sorry about my last post the spelling and I got cut off some how.That should have been 2 solenoids the NOS and Fuel. Next will be the fuel switch I was thinking same power sourse but no relay just fused. Next will be the Purge I'm thinking same as the fuel because I want this to work when nothing else is activated, Last ( I think will be the lights for the gauges I would really like these to work when the Dog is running only. I post way befor I work to get your ideals, and I get great ones.
PurpleDog
Well-Known Member
Right, as you can see my ideas lean toward doing away with add-on switches, if possible, for a clean stealth or trick install sort of thing. But again, I haven't proven this approach personally in this application. It just seems to me (still) that, in theory, you could have something like:
Bike is running - Gauge lights are on with parallel tap off bikes running lights.
Hit the Start Button - This activates AirRide Ckt Control mode of operation.
Toggle Hi Beam - To Arm NOS (Fuel pump on, drawing current from battery)
Toggle Hi Beam (again) - Disarm NOS, shut fuel pump off.
Toggle Low Beam - Purge NOS
Hit Start Button (again) - Returns Hi/Lo beam function. (NOS still activated)
WOT - NOS solenoid. - Throttle micro-switch
------------------
Other school of thought is for it to be seen; ie. Big-O Red honking NOS switch that looks cool...Even with that, you could still purge from Hi/Low if you wanted to imho.
Anyway, just something to think about. Others have built momentary switch latching relays for similar functions; usually to control lighting, accessory or audio applications.
I'd be interested in seeing your gauge / switch panel mount etc to get an idea of what you are thinking. Cool stuff either way, keep us posted.
Bike is running - Gauge lights are on with parallel tap off bikes running lights.
Hit the Start Button - This activates AirRide Ckt Control mode of operation.
Toggle Hi Beam - To Arm NOS (Fuel pump on, drawing current from battery)
Toggle Hi Beam (again) - Disarm NOS, shut fuel pump off.
Toggle Low Beam - Purge NOS
Hit Start Button (again) - Returns Hi/Lo beam function. (NOS still activated)
WOT - NOS solenoid. - Throttle micro-switch
------------------
Other school of thought is for it to be seen; ie. Big-O Red honking NOS switch that looks cool...Even with that, you could still purge from Hi/Low if you wanted to imho.
Anyway, just something to think about. Others have built momentary switch latching relays for similar functions; usually to control lighting, accessory or audio applications.
I'd be interested in seeing your gauge / switch panel mount etc to get an idea of what you are thinking. Cool stuff either way, keep us posted.
Holy shit man!Right, as you can see my ideas lean toward doing away with add-on switches, if possible, for a clean stealth or trick install sort of thing. But again, I haven't proven this approach personally in this application. It just seems to me (still) that, in theory, you could have something like:
Bike is running - Gauge lights are on with parallel tap off bikes running lights.
Hit the Start Button - This activates AirRide Ckt Control mode of operation.
Toggle Hi Beam - To Arm NOS (Fuel pump on, drawing current from battery)
Toggle Hi Beam (again) - Disarm NOS, shut fuel pump off.
Toggle Low Beam - Purge NOS
Hit Start Button (again) - Returns Hi/Lo beam function. (NOS still activated)
WOT - NOS solenoid. - Throttle micro-switch
------------------
Other school of thought is for it to be seen; ie. Big-O Red honking NOS switch that looks cool...Even with that, you could still purge from Hi/Low if you wanted to imho.
Anyway, just something to think about. Others have built momentary switch latching relays for similar functions; usually to control lighting, accessory or audio applications.
I'd be interested in seeing your gauge / switch panel mount etc to get an idea of what you are thinking. Cool stuff either way, keep us posted.
carpetman
Member
Sometimes I have a hard time just finding the horn button. I don't think I could remember all of those steps ( At 57 memory going ) I just like to grip it and rip it. I have bought two different styles of switches so far. The racing style with the covers look mean no lights. Also the rocker style that's lit. Hate to say it not real pleased with either. Found some more that are marine grade that are push button that are lit, Another $120.00. Trying to be as slick on the install as possable. Will have to desige the mounts and have it milled. So far everything is hidden except the bottle and the braided lines. OH so much work and so little time Daytona March 4th. A little secret to everyone this all started from just a ideal to add a flame thrower.....
Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
I believe pin 13 on the "ECU" is switched power on the EFI bikes. He could get it from here.
Neil
Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
When I converted over to a Thunderheart Micro harness Controller and got rid of the EHC from BDM I used a ASM4093 Momentary Push-button converter to convert the momentary signal of the push button control switch to a standard latching signal. So when I press my run switch my fuel pump kicks in and so on and if I turn my bike off, when I turn the key on the fuel pump automatically energizes again. Only if I press the switch again will it de-energize and stay that way. The momentary switch gave me 2 latched outputs and a constant. I am using my high/low and off/run switches as latched outputs.
I have pin outs for the ECM and EHC and how I used them in the conversion here and what they are for on a EFI bike anyway.
A EFI, EHC will work in a Carb bike as well.
Neil
I have pin outs for the ECM and EHC and how I used them in the conversion here and what they are for on a EFI bike anyway.
A EFI, EHC will work in a Carb bike as well.
Neil
DRBarnhart
Insert title here...
So I'm clear you mean pin 13 on the EFI controller? If so, the problem is that his bike is carbureted so no EFI controller...
Dennis
DRBarnhart
Insert title here...
Is the availability of an EFI EHC any better or cheaper than it is for non-EFI bikes?
Dennis
Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
No pin 13 coming off the ECM is switched power.
I make a PDF tomorrow of the pin out of the ECM. In fact I post up the pin out how my bike was done between the Thundermax wide band ECM I installed and to the Thunderheart micro controller as well as the push button converter.
Neil
Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
I do not know the answer to your question.....Is the availability of an EFI EHC any better or cheaper than it is for non-EFI bikes?
Dennis
I gave my EFI, EHC to a friend of mine with a carb bike....
Neil
DRBarnhart
Insert title here...
Guess I'm not following you. Looking at my schematic I'm seeing that B-13 isn't used on either type of EHC (at least in the harness connector) and A-13 is used on both for the right rear tail light. While that would be switched power I wouldn't add any kind of load to the light circuit including the coil of a relay. But, that's just me...
Looking forward to your PDF to clear things up for me! :up:
Thanks,
Dennis
Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
Sorry for the confusion,
I am still looking at a EFI bike with a ECM.........seeing how that is what I am use too......
Not a carb bike...which does not have it....
My fault all the way....
I would not put a load on the rear light circuit either out of the EHC...
All I have worked with is the EFI bikes on the BDM's and Harley's so I respectively say, sorry about the confusion I caused here where you were trying to help someone....:bang:
I will post the PDF's for others to use with the EFI bikes though....
You are the man here Dennis.....
When I look at the EFI, EHC compared to the Carb EHC, pin A19 on the carb is power to the ignition module. On the EFI, EHC, A19 feeds through a coil for relay control but A19 is also a parallel circuit out of the EHC using pin 20 for switched power through the ENC harness connector to feed switched power to the ECM at pin 13 and the carb EHC is not using pin A20. I guess I can say A19 and A20 are both EFI switched power controlled by the off/run switch inputs B44 off and B27 run.
Neil
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Nomad2day
Longhair Redneck Geek
This is for the Thundermax unit installed in my bike when I trashed the S&S VFI unit BDM installed in the bikes
ECU Pin out
1. FLASH GN/R
2. CHK ENG GN/O Output type low drive led
3. TACH OUTPUT PK
4. SYS RELAY GN/O
5. SERIAL DATA GN/V
6. HEAD TEMP BN
7. AIR TEMP GN/Y
8. NA
9. NA
10. GND BK
11. IGN REAR GY
12. CRANK (-) BK
13. SW PWR W/BK
14. SENSOR PWR R/W
15. NA
16. NA
17. IAC D BK/O
18. IAC C PPL
19. INJ REAR GN
20. NA
21. INJ FRONT W/O
22. NA
23. NA
24. TPS BK/Y
25. MAP V/W
26. SENSOR GND O/BE
27. ION SENSE GY/BE
28. GND BK
29. IGN FRONT BE
30. CRANK (+) W
31. CONSTANT PWR R
32. NA
33. VEHICLE SPEED W/GN
34. DIGITAL PWR R/BK
35. IAC A BE/W
36. IAC B BN/BE
ECU Pin out
1. FLASH GN/R
2. CHK ENG GN/O Output type low drive led
3. TACH OUTPUT PK
4. SYS RELAY GN/O
5. SERIAL DATA GN/V
6. HEAD TEMP BN
7. AIR TEMP GN/Y
8. NA
9. NA
10. GND BK
11. IGN REAR GY
12. CRANK (-) BK
13. SW PWR W/BK
14. SENSOR PWR R/W
15. NA
16. NA
17. IAC D BK/O
18. IAC C PPL
19. INJ REAR GN
20. NA
21. INJ FRONT W/O
22. NA
23. NA
24. TPS BK/Y
25. MAP V/W
26. SENSOR GND O/BE
27. ION SENSE GY/BE
28. GND BK
29. IGN FRONT BE
30. CRANK (+) W
31. CONSTANT PWR R
32. NA
33. VEHICLE SPEED W/GN
34. DIGITAL PWR R/BK
35. IAC A BE/W
36. IAC B BN/BE
DRBarnhart
Insert title here...
I wondered if we weren't talking about two different things.
No fault, just a communication glitch! :roll:
Thanks for clearing things up for me Neil.
Dennis