Loctite and Hub Torque Questions on Rear Tire

[Nomad2day]

I have removed the rear tire for replacement and hubs to replace the bearings in them on a 2007 Bulldog.
I have 2 questions here.
I opened the seals on the bearings or the two I can get too and as Raywood seen, the brake side bearing looks worst than the pulley side. Both need grease and you can feel it is somewhat rough when rotated. I will go ahead and replace these bearings while I have it tore down. The manual only states bearing sealed. You cant really see in the pic because I left them small, but there is no grease hardly in them and the brake side hub on the right is worst than the pulley side.

The part number on the bearing dust cover is: 6205RS 16, I think. Perhaps I am mistaking the 16 for a 15 but will measure the width of the bearing when I remove it.
6205RS Bearing 25x52x15 Sealed:Ball Bearings:VXB
6205RS Bearing, marked with 6205RS on both seals, the 6205RS inner diameter is 25 mm, the 6205RS outer diameter is 52mm and the 6205RS width is 15mm, 6205RS is a popular size that could be used in many applications, 6205RS Bearings are made of Chrome Steel, 6205RS bearing has 2 Rubber Seals to protect the bearing from dust or any possible contamination, 6205RS bearings are pre-lubricated with grease.

I will look locally and see if I can find some and see about pressing the old ones out in the mean time. Is there another bearing we can use in the hubs? Part Number?

Second problem is on Loctite and torque spec's.
The manual calls for 2 types of Loctite.

Wheel Hub screws...50 ft.lbs....2760 Loctite
Brake rotor screws 16 ft.lbs (192 in.lbs)(torque in a star) 2440 Loctite
Rear Pulley screws 50 ft lbs )(torque in a star) 2760 Loctite

Are these specs correct for torque and what Loctite do others use. I have some Blue 242 Removable and Red 262 High Strength. Until now, I did not realize how many different specs they make on Loctite. I assumed Red was red Loctite and Blue was blue Loctite but you really need to see what it is made for. The below link explained the Loctite ratings. I guess I should pass on my 262 Red and find something else to lock the hubs down or just use a small dab? My clutch hub nut was suppose to have 2760 Red on it and it did not hold and the nut backed off tearing up some stuff. Should I use something else (Red) for our high vibrating machines on the hub lock down? I loosed mine with a breaker bar and hex socket with no problems when I disassembled them.
The link below explains all the different applications for Loctite types.
threadlocker*info

 

[lee]

I must admit I only use 242 and 262

 

[KDF]

I must admit I only use 242 and 262

Same here...

KDF

 

[kickstart]

2760 is the RED and 2440 is the Blue. When I bought my 05 manual I called Loctite to find out what these were, and what I was told is they are the same as the 242 and 262 the four digit's are just a commercial number. The gentleman I spoke with was kind enough to send me a large sample of each, free of charge. :up:

 

[Loafington]

I have removed the rear tire for replacement and hubs to replace the bearings in them on a 2007 Bulldog.
I have 2 questions here.
I opened the seals on the bearings or the two I can get too and as Raywood seen, the brake side bearing looks worst than the pulley side. Both need grease and you can feel it is somewhat rough when rotated. I will go ahead and replace these bearings while I have it tore down. The manual only states bearing sealed. You cant really see in the pic because I left them small, but there is no grease hardly in them and the brake side hub on the right is worst than the pulley side.

The part number on the bearing dust cover is: 6205RS 16, I think. Perhaps I am mistaking the 16 for a 15 but will measure the width of the bearing when I remove it.
6205RS Bearing 25x52x15 Sealed:Ball Bearings:VXB
6205RS Bearing, marked with 6205RS on both seals, the 6205RS inner diameter is 25 mm, the 6205RS outer diameter is 52mm and the 6205RS width is 15mm, 6205RS is a popular size that could be used in many applications, 6205RS Bearings are made of Chrome Steel, 6205RS bearing has 2 Rubber Seals to protect the bearing from dust or any possible contamination, 6205RS bearings are pre-lubricated with grease.

I will look locally and see if I can find some and see about pressing the old ones out in the mean time. Is there another bearing we can use in the hubs? Part Number?

Second problem is on Loctite and torque spec's.
The manual calls for 2 types of Loctite.

Wheel Hub screws...50 ft.lbs....2760 Loctite
Brake rotor screws 16 ft.lbs (192 in.lbs)(torque in a star) 2440 Loctite
Rear Pulley screws 50 ft lbs )(torque in a star) 2760 Loctite

Are these specs correct for torque and what Loctite do others use. I have some Blue 242 Removable and Red 262 High Strength. Until now, I did not realize how many different specs they make on Loctite. I assumed Red was red Loctite and Blue was blue Loctite but you really need to see what it is made for. The below link explained the Loctite ratings. I guess I should pass on my 262 Red and find something else to lock the hubs down or just use a small dab? My clutch hub nut was suppose to have 2760 Red on it and it did not hold and the nut backed off tearing up some stuff. Should I use something else (Red) for our high vibrating machines on the hub lock down? I loosed mine with a breaker bar and hex socket with no problems when I disassembled them.
The link below explains all the different applications for Loctite types.
threadlocker*info

I went through the same problem on my bike when I replaced mine. If you get the same exact bearings through BD then you should be fine as far as fit goes. If you go to you local bearing shop and ask them for a sealed 6205, you might get the wrong size, so be aware of that. A 6205 bearing has an ID of 25 mm. Our axles are 25.4mm or 1". I posted some info regarding the bearing issue a while back. I went with a different manufacturer with the bearings. The ones supplied by BD are made in China and are very cheap both in price and quality. To me, spending some extra money is worth it when it comes to axle bearings; hey it's your ass. My bearings failed at 5500 miles. Way too soon in my opinion and experience with bearings and whatnot.

Rear wheel bearing part number

Timken/Fafnir 205KDD2

I paid $23.73 each

Some info regarding Loctite products or any thread locker for that matter. They have a shelf life and, if required, you should use a primer to ensure a complete full strength cure. Most thread lockers cure anaerobically and require the presence of an active metal (one that will oxidize in air). When you use a primer, the primer has copper suspended in acetone. Once the acetone evaporates, the copper is left behind providing the active metal essential for proper curing and achieving full strength...Most, if not all of the hardware on our motorcycles are stainless screws. Some of the parts are aluminum and that should provide the active metal needed. You can still use a primer if you want but it should not be required in this case. Some thread lockers do not require the use of primers. Some are tolerant of a reasonable amount of dirt or grime on the threads; some are not and if that is the case, then both mating surfaces need to be pretty clean in order for the thread locker to work properly. If the thread locker that you used failed, it could have been caused by many things. Thread cleanliness, use or no use of a primer, wrong type used for the thread size...
In the future, if both mating surfaces are corrosion resistant, like stainless screws into a nickel plated or chrome or anything else that will not oxidize in air, primer will almost always need to be used in order for the thread locker to work properly.

When I changed the bearings on my K9, I ran a tap through all of the holes and cleared out any old thread locker. I ran a die over all of the screws and did the same thing. This is definitely one area that you need to pay close attention to reassembly and don’t cut corners. That is just my opinion.

 

[Nomad2day]

Thanks Loafington for the detailed information..:up:

I will take the axle with me tomorrow and measure the diameter as well as the bearing specs. I removed the bearings today so I will have them with me as well. I am going to go to a Industrial Machine warehouse, BDI inc to see what they can can tell me and get for me. I am with you on the cheap bearings in these machines. I lean toward having better bearings under my ass too. I will post what goes down. I have the info you have provided as well.

I have been running a tap through the threads and using a automotive prep to clean all the faces on the hubs, rim and bolts as well.

The clutch hub nut that backed off was done at the factory. From what I have read on this forum, a number of bikes have had this happen to them and quite a few of them are 2007 models as well.

kickstart, KDF and Lee,
Thanks for the info on what you use as well on the Loctite.
kickstart, I may have to call them myself tomorrow and educate myself as well on there product.
Hope the tire comes in from Eastern Performancce this week so I can get this back together and put a few road test miles on this coming weekend seeing how I am off next weekend.....

 

[Nomad2day]

Loafington,
Here is the deal on the bearings after going to BDI and speaking with them.
The original bearing I removed, 6205RS 16 is a one inch bearing. The 16 at the end stands for 16/ 16ths or 1 inch. Being that it is a no brand bearing I chose the route you did and ordered 3 Timken/Fafnir 205KDD2. Yea, screw China under my ass too. The 2 at the end of a bearing number represents it has been modified in "some" way. Be it the race or whatever. The Timken/Fafnir 205KDD2 is no doubt a quality bearing and I gave 20.00 a piece for them. They will be here tomorrow anyway. As we measured the shaft itself, the values were all over the place depending where it was measure. They were surprised as well.

I asked about opening the seal and applying extra grease and was advised not to do that. The extra grease will cause the bearing to heat up more thus causing premature failure also. Appears it is a science to the amount that is applied for a particular bearing.

Kickstart,
I did call Loctite and spoke to them about the products. The 2440 is now discontinued for every-ones info. I asked if using the 242 was good to go and yes was the answer but suggested using 243 with a primer.
I ordered a small bottle of the 2760 through Fastenal Fasteners for 16.00. When I was at BDI, they gave me a few small samples of some other Loctite stuff for uses in scope mounting screws and ect...
Thanks,
Neil

 

[Loafington]

Nomad,

You were correctly informed. Unless the bearing is considered “serviceable”, it is neither a good idea nor recommended practice to grease a bearing that is sealed and has no means to be greased. Putting too much grease in a bearing that has no means to displace the extra grease is sometimes just as bad as no grease at all. The excess grease will prevent the bearing from performing properly and failure will most likely result.
Additionally, one would need to have a fair amount of knowledge in the lubricants and choose grease that is best suited for the application; just any old grease is not the answer. Temperature range, collapsibility, resistance to water etc. are all factors and need to be taken into consideration when lubricating bearings. Call it a science if you wish.

 

[Rally]

Nomad,
so what was the end result with the new bearings?
I know it's been awhile and I just read this thread and wondered what happened.
thanks