K9 tries to start when turning key now.

[Maxim_es]

Looking for anyone that has ran into this issue or may know what’s causing it. Have a 2010 K9 EFI, all original electrical but installed a new battery couple months ago. Bike had worked fine the last time I rode it a few weeks ago. Went to start it today and turned the key and EVERYTHING turns on. It tries to start, lights all come on, Speedo comes on, horn beeps very loud, etc. Have to turn the key back off immediately or it will keep cranking.
I hadn’t touched this thing and it worked fine until now. The EHC lights up like a Christmas tree so not sure what to make of that. I’ll keep searching but open to any suggestions.
I tried pushing all the hand control buttons in case something was stuck, but all seem fine.
I unhooked the battery just to try to reset anything. All connections look good after taking the side covers off.

 

[Sven]

If say you pulled the EHC connector so it was not in the loop, key on and does it crank over? So a few scenarios would be:
1. EHC disconnected starter no longer spins = EHC.
2. EHC disconnected starter still spins = Stuck starter button [pin] not returning, but button does to throw you off.
3. EHC disconnected relay disconnected = Starter no longer spins.
4. EHC connected relay disconnected = Starter no longer spins.

At the key switch assembly, EHC connected, relay connected:
a. Remove each wire off at a time to see who stops spinning the engine over.
b. You've narrowed down the loop as to whatever wire is hooked back up is the culprit.

 

[Maxim_es]

Sorry, what is the relay? How do I disconnect that?

 

[Sven]

From heavy wire at the starter motor, that other end hooks to the 'relay'. There are two wires out of the relay. One goes to the handlebar switch, the other is sent to ground. Remove either wire and this stops the magnetic field inside the relay that connects the battery cable and starter motor cable inside the relay.

So follow the jobbers, wire and cables:
Battery does a job so on the (+) side of the battery, follow the heavy red cable up to the 'relay'.
Relay is a jobber [think] and that part has 2 stud posts for the cables, and 2 wires for the start button to connect the cables together inside. Wire one is traced back to the start button/kill switch. Wire two has to have a ground to complete the circuit.

By using an ohm meter, you can use the black probe from the meter to ground on the bike. With the red probe, you stick that in the relay wires on the harness side. Turn the key on, tap the start button and see if the meter shows it can connect to the relay, by showing it can switch on and off at the meter with the button. If no movement on or off, we would see the meter show infinity [completes a circuit] as you touch it to check the switch. If you can only move the meter by the red probe touching the harness side of the relay wire, it says the switch is stuck to start the engine.

By removing the relay wire at the harness, key on, the starter should not crank the engine. If the wire is off the relay, engine cranks, it says the relay arm is frozen inside the relay. Change the relay. If the cranking stops with a wire off the relay, you can keep the key on and begin to remove a few wires off the key switch to see the EHC LED's go back to normal. Place that wire back in place and the [all] LED's light back up, this might be a short at that clump of wires at the harness. Or say, you remove one wire at a time out of the back of the EHC main connector and chase the short that way.

 

[Maxim_es]

Thanks for the help. Will see if I can try a few things tomorrow.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

From heavy wire at the starter motor, that other end hooks to the 'relay'. There are two wires out of the relay. One goes to the handlebar switch, the other is sent to ground. Remove either wire and this stops the magnetic field inside the relay that connects the battery cable and starter motor cable inside the relay.

So follow the jobbers, wire and cables:
Battery does a job so on the (+) side of the battery, follow the heavy red cable up to the 'relay'.
Relay is a jobber [think] and that part has 2 stud posts for the cables, and 2 wires for the start button to connect the cables together inside. Wire one is traced back to the start button/kill switch. Wire two has to have a ground to complete the circuit.

By using an ohm meter, you can use the black probe from the meter to ground on the bike. With the red probe, you stick that in the relay wires on the harness side. Turn the key on, tap the start button and see if the meter shows it can connect to the relay, by showing it can switch on and off at the meter with the button. If no movement on or off, we would see the meter show infinity [completes a circuit] as you touch it to check the switch. If you can only move the meter by the red probe touching the harness side of the relay wire, it says the switch is stuck to start the engine.

By removing the relay wire at the harness, key on, the starter should not crank the engine. If the wire is off the relay, engine cranks, it says the relay arm is frozen inside the relay. Change the relay. If the cranking stops with a wire off the relay, you can keep the key on and begin to remove a few wires off the key switch to see the EHC LED's go back to normal. Place that wire back in place and the [all] LED's light back up, this might be a short at that clump of wires at the harness. Or say, you remove one wire at a time out of the back of the EHC main connector and chase the short that way.

Sven there is no separate starter relay on these bikes after 04. It was integrated into the EHC.



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[Sven]

Thanks, 3... sounds like the black box my nephew wanted to use. He wants less wiring and a lot of switches were in this box like the start relay, winker relay.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Thanks, 3... sounds like the black box my nephew wanted to use. He wants less wiring and a lot of switches were in this box like the start relay, winker relay.

Exactly...that's the caveat to sticking everything in one box. One internal relay goes and it's all done. Like one bad bulb or wiring malfunction on Xmas light string, whole string doesn't work. Or in auto applications we are kinda seeing it with sealed transmissions on newer cars. Can't even change the fluid!

Either way. He can unhook the EHC plug clean it up, stick a little dielectric grease on it and see if his early Xmas light show goes away.

Probably also just double check make sure his battery connections are tight and clean since he did just recently replace it.

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[Maxim_es]

Well now I’m even more confused. Replaced the battery and same issue, tried to start when turning the key on.
Thought maybe the starter was stuck which didn’t really make much sense, but took the cap off and cleaned up the “metal contacts” and washers. Sorry not sure what the real names are. Put it back together and same issue.
Then took the EHC “apart”. Simply unplugged the two junctions and noticed lots of dielectric grease and no moisture that I could see. Turned the key on when that was all unhooked and of course it didn’t do anything. Hooked it all back up and same issue, tries to start with key and horn blares louder than hell.
Then laid down under the bike and was looking for any wires that might have been rubbing through or chewed on. Did not notice anything and barely moved any wires. I was up by the voltage regulator but I didn’t do anything that would have “fixed” this thing.
Couple minutes later I turned the key on and all was NORMAL. WTF
Did the power cycle for the EFI and shut off for 15 seconds, then it fired right up. Absolutely no clue why. I guess the electrical gremlins are starting for me. Doesn’t give me any confidence that I fixed anything. Don’t know what to do at this point other than shake wires and try to recreate it. I did that for 10 minutes now and it’s still fine. Confused in South Dakota!

 

[Mikeinjersey]

Well now I’m even more confused. Replaced the battery and same issue, tried to start when turning the key on.
Thought maybe the starter was stuck which didn’t really make much sense, but took the cap off and cleaned up the “metal contacts” and washers. Sorry not sure what the real names are. Put it back together and same issue.
Then took the EHC “apart”. Simply unplugged the two junctions and noticed lots of dielectric grease and no moisture that I could see. Turned the key on when that was all unhooked and of course it didn’t do anything. Hooked it all back up and same issue, tries to start with key and horn blares louder than hell.
Then laid down under the bike and was looking for any wires that might have been rubbing through or chewed on. Did not notice anything and barely moved any wires. I was up by the voltage regulator but I didn’t do anything that would have “fixed” this thing.
Couple minutes later I turned the key on and all was NORMAL. WTF
Did the power cycle for the EFI and shut off for 15 seconds, then it fired right up. Absolutely no clue why. I guess the electrical gremlins are starting for me. Doesn’t give me any confidence that I fixed anything. Don’t know what to do at this point other than shake wires and try to recreate it. I did that for 10 minutes now and it’s still fine. Confused in South Dakota!
View attachment 79168

I didn't read any of the previous comments and you may have done this already but clean and tighten your battery connections and grounds. If your battery is old and not holding 12.8 volts replace it. Lastly if it fails again look at your EHC for fault lights and then turn it off and heat the EHC with a hair dryer for 10 or 15 and check again. Moisture, Cold and poor connections are the bane of the BD EHC's existence

 

[Sven]

Can't be multi bare wires that locked the EHC to trigger all the relays inside. Could be one wire and you pulled it away.
According to how you were diagnosing, meaning, you removed the EHC, installed it and here comes the horn. But the next move was to pull on some wires and Bingo? I'd ride it. Let it happen again and go right to the same places once again... harness wise. Usually etching takes place so you could wipe the harness at those points you tugged on with a paper towel. You more or less have to work in inches, meaning, push the wires away, rub the frame and where is the paint powder on the paper towel? There is you etch point.

 

[HMAN]

Try checking your start button. Almost sounds like its stuck? Take the throttle side switch assembly apart and check the switch location on the PC board. Its possible the thing bound up and continually makes contact? Just my thoughts....

 

[Maxim_es]

I can definitely try that but for some reason it quit doing it. The horn also blared which is why I didn’t take the hand controls apart. Just all-around weird. It was like every electrical system firing all at once when the key was turned.
I’m sure it will happen again and I will revive this thread just to report back for someone to hopefully learn from it..