Headlight blowing - LED Accent lights causing problem - Part 2

[Keith S]

I had a recent issue with my headlight blowing and thought it was fixed. I am still having issues and think I have found the culprit, but don't really understand the how/why. I am hoping someone with more electrical knowledge than I can help.

With my last thread, I had an issue with the bike overcharging the battery. This caused the headlight to blow the low beam within a mile and the high beam within three or four miles. It also overcharged a LiFe battery and blew the Wire-Plus switch harness after about 15 miles.

I replaced the VR and Stator with the 40 amp 3 Phase system. When I hooked everything back up, I left my LED accent lights (which have been on the bike since before I bought it in 08) unhooked. This seemed to fix the problem. I road about 15 miles and checked and was getting about 13 volts running (i.e. charging). I went on a second ride about 20 miles and everything was perfect. The headlight worked well. The charging system worked, etc.

So tonight I was going to a bike night 6 or 7 miles from the house. I rehooked up the LED accent lights and the trickle charger before I left tonight. I turned the LEDs on and the back off just to check them. I did not check the headlight before I left. I noticed it was out about 3 miles from the house. The high beam worked but I left it off.

On the way home, it was dark. I wanted to leave earlier, but got held up. I ran the high beam and it was fine the whole way. Close to home, I decided to try the LED accent lights just to see what happened. As soon as I turned them on, the headlight blew. The LEDs stayed on. I live on a country road and could still see so I road a very short way home. When I got home, I checked the battery with it running. Sure enough, it was over 16 volts. I unhooked the LEDs and the trickle charger and it was back at 13 volts.

I am pretty sure it is a short in the LED accent lights, but why would that cause the system to overcharge? And if it is a short, why do the LEDs still work?

The easy solution is to just leave them unhooked, but I like the look. More important, I want to understand the WHY.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[KaptinAmerika]

When I got home, I checked the battery with it running. Sure enough, it was over 16 volts. I unhooked the LEDs and the trickle charger and it was back at 13 volts.

So are you saying you had the trickle charger connected while the bike was running and it was 16v?

 

[Keith S]

No. Trickle charger was on the night before. Not while the bike was running. The harness was connected to the battery but not plugged into the charger.

 

[BigDogBro1]

Are you sure the AC voltage into the VR is in the proper range and that the VR is the proper type?

LiFe battery?
Try a recommended AGM style battery.

If the VR and stator are properly functioning then all that's left is the battery type.

 

[Keith S]

When the LiFe battery went bad, I went back to a standard AGM. That is what was in it last night.

 

[BigDogBro1]

Exactly where are you pulling power from to run the LED lights?

Whos VR are you running and what is the part number? It may have a problem. There is no way the battery voltage should be getting that high (16v) if the system is functioning properly. 14v to 14.5 is normally the top range.

Some VR's just turn on/off the rectified AC (turned into DC from stator) to charge the battery and don't truly regulate the maximum charge voltage to the battery. It's possibly when you tax the charging system with extra accessories all at once, the VR may need to stay turned ON longer and over-stresses the headlight bulb filament (AND all your other electronic systems) causing it to burn out.

Still thinking about it.....but personally I would dump the LED's accent lights. The LEDs should have some kind of control module box attached to them for operation and voltage reduction but I can't see what interference that would cause in this case. I would consider getting one of those battery voltage condition monitoring lights talked about on this forum.
http://www.wildsteedworx.com/index....o&cPath=65_68_173_82_281_284&products_id=1258


Take a look at this thread.
http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/technical/52726-voltage-regulator.html


http://www.cycleelectricinc.com/

 

[Keith S]

Just installed the Compu-Fire 40 amp 3 Phase stator and VR.

The LEDs have a toggle switch and go straight to the battery on positive and frame on ground.

 

[BigDogBro1]

I would just contact Compu-fire with your above story and see what they have to say about it. It's all their product and they should know why the system is reacting that way.

Let us know what you find out.

http://www.compufire.com/index.php?option=com_contact&view=contact&id=1&Itemid=33

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

I'd pull the accent LED's off -- It sounds almost like they have a battery of their own adding voltage to the system.

Disconnect the lead from the battery and throw the LED switch -- hopefully they won't come one if wired correclty -- measure the voltage at the switch that went to the battery and see if you have ANY voltage. (if you do something is suppling power via another route and you need to find it.)

 

[spadesluck]

I just installed LED accent lights straight to the battery like you. I also have the Compu-Fire 40 amp 3 phase system. I have not had any of your problems at all. There could be something going on with your charging system when it sees that extra load. I would check the voltages with the bike running to see what they are, then turn the led's on with the bike still running to see if there is a funny drop/spike. To blow your headlight like that is not good at all.

 

[JustDennis]

Sounds like the voltage regulator is bad. Just replaced mine because it wasn't limiting the volts. Also added an inline fuse between VR and battery.


Ride Safe,
JustDennis

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Brew]

Sounds like the voltage regulator is bad. Just replaced mine because it wasn't limiting the volts. Also added an inline fuse between VR and battery.


Ride Safe,
JustDennis

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Compu-fire system comes with an in-line fuse, I'm running it on my 05 Ridgeback and have no issues with it.

 

[Keith S]

Update -

First off Thank You for all of the ideas.

I disconnected the LEDs and the trickle charger pigtail. I tightened and checked everything I could find electrically. I rode it several times this weekend starting with short rides of 10-15 miles and ending with a 65 mile ride that took about 1:45 (all back roads). After each ride, I would check the votage resting and at about 2000 RPMs. All were normal (about 12.5-13 resting and 13.5ish at 2000 RPMs.

I talked with a couple of electrical engineers who were helpful in an engineer way - which means they told me what would cause the problem but not what was causing the problem.

Basically I think when I added the LEDs and trickle pigtail, I must have not gotten a good ground for the VR. This caused it to overcompensate by juicing the current, hence the overcharging.

I am going to ride it some more next week and weekend and see it it stays solid. It is does, I will add the LEDs back and see what happens.

Thanks again for the help and ideas.

 

[KaptinAmerika]

If you put them back on get a small bus bar, ground it to the frame, and keep the connections off the battery as much as possible.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Update -

First off Thank You for all of the ideas.

I disconnected the LEDs and the trickle charger pigtail. I tightened and checked everything I could find electrically. I rode it several times this weekend starting with short rides of 10-15 miles and ending with a 65 mile ride that took about 1:45 (all back roads). After each ride, I would check the votage resting and at about 2000 RPMs. All were normal (about 12.5-13 resting and 13.5ish at 2000 RPMs.

I talked with a couple of electrical engineers who were helpful in an engineer way - which means they told me what would cause the problem but not what was causing the problem.

Basically I think when I added the LEDs and trickle pigtail, I must have not gotten a good ground for the VR. This caused it to overcompensate by juicing the current, hence the overcharging.

I am going to ride it some more next week and weekend and see it it stays solid. It is does, I will add the LEDs back and see what happens.

Thanks again for the help and ideas.

Those engineers don't make any sense...I hope they are not engineering anything that I will use...the whole point of a voltage regulator is wait for it......REGULATE the voltage. 16v is WAY out of spec for a voltage regulator on a motorcycle regardless of how much current is being drawn. You could hook up a TV to your motorcycle and it still should NEVER put out over 14.5v. Cars don't even put out 16v even if you have a giant 200amp alternator because it will overcharge and kill you battery. It was clearly a bad VR and I'm glad you got it fixed...

 

[bearman]

Sounds to me like you have your LEDs wired up wrong, or you have some bad led's.

Typically an LED uses 3.2 volts, so to safely use one of these the easiest way is to run 3 or 4 of them in series (3x3.2=9.6, 4x3.2=12.8). If you look closely the DIY strips have 3 LEDs in series (repeated) and the directions say to only cut in these groups of 3.

It is possible that when your Voltage regulator went out that it messed up some of the LEDs. They may be taking less than 3.2 volts or may be letting voltage through the wrong way (it is supposed to be a diode after all, and conduct current only one way, but they might not be acting like it any longer).

Since your VR works normal without the LEDs, it HAS to be something wrong with them.

Try hooking them to the lawnmower battery or a car and see what they do and how they affect that voltage, or better yet, just replace them.