electrical problem on 09 mastiff --help--

[REMorris]

I would have to say I was blessed with 10,000 troublefree miles. Now all i can say is I can't take it out of the dealership, it dies or will not start

Here is what happened 1st:
I was beginning to get an intermittent start situation. Took it into Iron Lightning and it did the "i don't want to start thing" on them. 2 weeks later, they found the problem. the rear bolt that holds the rear of the tank in place was way too long and had actually worn a hole in my wiring harness big enough to stick the tip of my small finger in it. Also, when they took the ECU off, one of it's mounting bolts got screwed up. So I got a new ecu and new backbone wire harness (and they cut the tank bolt to the correct length so it will not happen again). I got the bike backand was happy for a week.

Next, my bike acted dead (no lights or speedo, nothing) after it was ridden a while. (This was after I shut it off and went to restart it). I ended up disconnecting the terminals attached to the neg post and when hooked back up, it would start and everything seemingly worked. As before, my bike performed this problem for the dealership.
Get this, dealer put yet another new ecu in it as well as a new battery and claimed it was fixed again.

This Thursday, I went to pick it up and it did the same damn thing again (turn key and basically side lights come on, no switches can turn anything on or off and turning key off it still has lights stuck on and of course, no starter activity), unhooking the negative connections allowed it to reset some error condition and it started.

Needless to say, I did not pick the bike up and have make it clear the bike must be able to ride this coming weekend as well as next weekend.

I told them in all cases it was not acting like a bad ecu, but rather that the ecu is doing it's bootup tests and something is not responding back, so the bike's computer isn't fully getting booted up.

I have designed and built robotics for American Airlines, Hilti Industries, Rockwell Aerospace, etc... my point is that I have a lot of experience in dealing with analog and digital systems.

I explained this to them and them told them the following:
This acts like a bad digital ground. The digital ground usually achieves the ground state by pulling the current down with dropping resistors. It the drooping resistors are connected to a <bad> ground, then the ecu can not turn on or off critical electronic switches. So unless the startup code in the ecu has timeout and contnue code happening, and I suspect it does not, the bike will not start and appear dead.
Un-hooking the battery turns it to a fresh start and so far it will start. Oh yes, forgot to mention that when it goes to lockup mode, even turning off the key doesn help, I think the parking lights stay on.

I really like Iron Lightning and have the bike serviced there since new. I am not putting the dealer down, but I got to have my bike for the next 2 weekends.

So, anyone else have this experience and what was causing it?
Thanks for taking time to read this
Richard Morris 918-258-2855 if you have any ideas.

 

[gixxbynite]

i would call the factory on that one and see what feedback they can give. a new ecu and battery would be my suggestion, or just replace everything electrical. but that seems to be where the dealer was headed and that did not work. so ???? i hear the dealer is down to 30 employees. so there should be someone there to help you out. good luck

 

[BigDogBro1]

Make sure all the battery terminal wire crimps on the smaller wires especially are tightly crimped. Re-crimp them!
Mine acted the same way and Beezer's found that the wires in the crimps were loose and causing the EHC to fail on turn-on. See EHC post below.

http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/help-wanted/14952-07-bulldog-wont-turn.html

 

[REMorris]

I was told today that the HID kit (from Jake, Lowdownchopshop) was the problem. The HID was causing the voltage to drop down so low that the system shut down. This was a known issue at the Big Dog factory (which is where this info came from).

Iron Lightning says to put the stock bulb back in.

My thought is rewire (switch 2 wires) on the headlight circuit so that on startup, the small regular bulb comes on as low beam. I could turn on high beam (HID) after the bike is running and the alternator can pick up the load when the high beam comes on.

I will also talk to Jake and see if he can send a new HID power supply.

Richard

 

[CHOPPED]

HID kits can definitely cause this problem. I would try to disconnect the kit and see if the problem keeps happening. What did you design for Hilti? I worked for them for a few years after college.

 

[REMorris]

HID kits can definitely cause this problem. I would try to disconnect the kit and see if the problem keeps happening. What did you design for Hilti? I worked for them for a few years after college.

I did the automated concrete drill testing machine (ran 4 drills simulaneously and simulated a human pushing down and resting) and also one that tested motors. Mark Knackstedt was the engineer at Hilti that I worked with. I bid on rewriting an existing program for tham in 2003, but apparently bid too high and didn't get the job. All coding was in C and assembly language.

 

[CHOPPED]

Nice!! I was a steel specialist for them in the NY, NJ area. Bringing home my 09 Mastiff on Saturday. The damn weather has held the truck up. I was going to pick it up tomorrow.

 

[Five Five]

richard.....interesting problem, your suspicion of the HID kit seems resonable...keep us posted on the final outcome

 

[REMorris]

I rode my 09 Mastiff back from the dealership today. So far no problems.

Riding it in 23 degree weather really sucks, I had to get on city streets as the facial pain and numb hands at 70 were just too much to tolerate. (no helmet of course and goggles, kit hat and a leather face bandanna).

I have rides this weekend and next weekend so if it's going to die on me, I will know pretty fast.

Richard.

 

[CURDOG]

Rick, I bought a HID kit from Jake shortly after I bought my '08 K9 and it caused similar problems to what you're having. It would lock up the EHC, flash the lights, etc, and even shut the bike off while I was riding. :angry: So many others were running the HID and I couldn't. It was like my bike had a different version of software on the EHC or something. :bang:

I was talking with Jake recently and told him I'd still like to run a HID and he told me he worked on a new module that seems to have cured it I've had it in for a few weeks now and ridden on several 75 mile trips and it seems to be fixed. It occasionally flashes a couple of extra times when the key is turned on but other than that, I'm leaving it in this time. :up:

 

[bdmridgeback]

I was told today that the HID kit (from Jake, Lowdownchopshop) was the problem. The HID was causing the voltage to drop down so low that the system shut down. This was a known issue at the Big Dog factory (which is where this info came from).

Iron Lightning says to put the stock bulb back in.

My thought is rewire (switch 2 wires) on the headlight circuit so that on startup, the small regular bulb comes on as low beam. I could turn on high beam (HID) after the bike is running and the alternator can pick up the load when the high beam comes on.

I will also talk to Jake and see if he can send a new HID power supply.

Richard

The HID ballasts draw less amperage than the stock bulb does unless the ballast was damaged in the short out you had.

So, how long did you run the HID kit BEFORE your tank bolt wrecked havok on the wiring harness? I'd guess that when the tank bolt shorted everything out, that the HID ballast was damaged as well.

If the HID wasn't going to work with your EHC, it would have been right from the start. The first ride or two, same as in CURDOG's bike.

The only bikes that have had problems down the road many miles with a HID kit are the ones that a bulb fails or something else like a speedo shorts out and the ballast picks it up and goes into protection mode.

I bet that the headlight wires were damaged as well when the bolt shorted the backbone harness, and that in turn took out the ballast.

You really can't blame this entire issue on the HID kit, because it worked fine before your harness was shorted out with the tank bolt. After the EHC was replaced, the ballast was still damaged, and that in turn WILL lock up the EHC if it sees a short.

 

[Gas Man]

Ever consider running a HID delay relay?

like
Honda Products

 

[REMorris]

Ever consider running a HID delay relay?

like
Honda Products

From what I have been told, that will not work. The BDM EHC watches the headlight circuit for both minumum and maximum amperage. If you delay the headlight coming on, you will cause the EHC to go into error (bulb burned out) condition.

I am going to add another ground to the headlight and see if this will help my problem. I talked to Jake this evening about this problem and he asked me to check a couple of things. He also is working on an addition to his HID ballast that will get the amperage draw back up to the normal level. However, Iron Lightning told me my light was pulling the headlight voltage down too far. (voltage was measured at the headlight connector, not at the battery). What Iron Lightning is saying can be due to a bad ground.

I will check various things out and let you guys know when something is found.

Richard

ps: I have used Jakes HID kit for over a year, this problem only surfaced AFTER I got a new main wiring harness and new EHC. I highly recommend the HID light for anyone that rides at night.

 

[Gas Man]

yeah I wondered about that. A good eletrical guy could maybe wire a resister on the headlight circuit then time it over to the HID...

 

[myanoch]

Run a small rely in the lighting circuit
When the coil of the relay pulls in the other side of the relay will feed power from the battery to light the new circuit you want
Don't get power from lighting circuit to light the led use it only to work the coil in the relay to close a set of contacts like a switch to feed power to your new led circuit
I hope I explained this that it makes sense