Battery or starter???

[Daniel Gallegos]

My 08 pitbull seems to be going through batteries to fast. Seems like every year I'm replacing the battery.

I've tried Deka ETX20L and the Wicked Start RG20L 500+ CCA and even a Diehard battery.

I'm starting to think that it could be my starter going out. Every time I change the battery it turns on nicely for a couple of days and then it starts to drag and then the bike won't start. It will just crank but no start. I just installed a battery today, Deka ETX20L, and it didn't even crank just a couple tiny little clicks.They are not even the normal clicks like when the battery doesn't have enough juice. It only clicks like twice and that's it like if the starter is jammed or something. In 2021 I replaced the EHC from the Deadones. The Deadone had mentioned to me to trickle charge the battery once a day. I've done that and have even done it twice a day with a scheduled wifi electric wall plug. Everything worked well until about a year later I've just been replacing batteries every year and not been riding the Bigdog anymore. I've been riding lately but had to resort back to riding a Harley. Nothing wrong with that but I really enjoy riding the Bigdog. Anyone have any thoughts on this, I'd appreciate any response on theories of what could be happening

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

OK, First charge the battery and then check the voltage -- a fully charged battery should be 12.8v
Check your ground wires and the positive wire to the starter. Make sure they are tight and not burnt.
Next given the symptoms I'd recommend pulling the starter and cleaning the solenoid contacts. You should bea ble to do a search and find a thread on here about how to do that, it's been discussed a number of times.
Check your compression releases while you are at it as well.
When you hit start you should be able to both feel them open adn hear them as well. Press gently down on the rubber dome in the center of the cylinders -- check both. A 117ci with bad compression releases is hell on batteries and starters.
Report back your results so we can move on from there.
If I missed any initial steps some one will speak up.

 

[Jwooky]

I’d also check the charging system as well

 

[Sven]

The 3 components of the charging system and see who is at fault.

1. Say new battery is a 12N14a battery. We know it's for a 12v bike, we know N is for battery post positions, we know the formula is 14 amps. So new, we know BS means battery acid supplied. So pour and let stand for at least an hour to soak the acid into the plates.

2. Say we have two styles of battery chargers. One is a constant voltage and the other is a smart charger. When buying a constant type. we move a decimal point over to the right once, meaning, if the amp rated is 14a, then we have to find at least a 1.4 amp rated output battery charger. If a 12a, then we need at least find a 1.2 amp rated constant type charger. We can't use a 1.2 amp rated battery charger on a 14a battery. Or said another way by formula, we need to charge a 14a battery with a 1.4 amp rated battery for literally 14 hours . Same formula of using a 1.2 amp rated battery for 12 solid hours. A smart charger will up the amps and cycle the LED lights on the charger till it shows green, once it runs thru the red light sequence of hours till it says fully charged.

3. Say a constant charger you have now say a 1.5a or looking for a cheap constant that reads on the back, 1.5 amp rated. No problem for a 1.4 or a 1.2 amp rated battery. Say you run an hour or so less with a 1.2 rated battery. The point is not to overheat the plates inside that begin to boil large bubbles and tear open the fiber pleats, but rather the safer champagne size bubbles out of the pleats.

3. We now have a well charged battery that reads off the charger 12.8v or higher. The battery is now ready to install for service. So with battery installed, key on only, the battery is showing 12.8v or higher. We are watching a voltmeter at the battery and do not let the eyes leave the meter while watching the sequence of events. 12.6v is the least amount shown, meaning, it needs to be charged back up to12.8v again.

4. We now press the start button, and this is like a bench test/load test of the starter motor. This shows a load test to the battery's ability to: PUSH. Push means volts. So we want to see how good is the reserve to continue to PUSH the starter over and return to 12.8v once the bike starts and idles. So if it returns to 12.8v immediately, it shows a good battery with reserve.

5. The meter is going to show 14.4v once the bike starts. That is why you have to see the return number back to 12.8v before the voltage regulator kicks in to 14v+. This will show a good stator putting out, a good battery that can PUSH a starter motor over, a battery with reserve to PUSH.

6. Say the bike is idling and the meter shows a steady 12.8v. This will show a bad stator. It is now a beer run bike and a short hop to the liquor store, while keeping the bike running. The draw down my show 10.?v and recovery is now 12.2v because of the PUSH needed to turn the starter motor over. High tail it home and don't use the high beam or touch the brake light because you are running what is called 'total loss' in the racing type scene. No stator used, no lights, because the electronics will take a shit if down to 12v or below. Call AAA at this point to get you home.

7. Say the meter shows 16-17v. This shows a bad voltage regulator. By watching the meter, it will pinpoint who of the 3 components of the charging system is at fault. We here at fuck that shit shop do not use an ohm meter to figure out if the stator has said book resistance, nor book spec to show the V/R wire resistances, nor a battery load test machine at pep-boys.

Signed,
NOLTT

 

[Mickmorris]

Beautiful sled. RSD is a pain to work on that starter. Can be done but not fun

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

The 3 components of the charging system and see who is at fault.

1. Say new battery is a 12N14a battery. We know it's for a 12v bike, we know N is for battery post positions, we know the formula is 14 amps. So new, we know BS means battery acid supplied. So pour and let stand for at least an hour to soak the acid into the plates.

2. Say we have two styles of battery chargers. One is a constant voltage and the other is a smart charger. When buying a constant type. we move a decimal point over to the right once, meaning, if the amp rated is 14a, then we have to find at least a 1.4 amp rated output battery charger. If a 12a, then we need at least find a 1.2 amp rated constant type charger. We can't use a 1.2 amp rated battery charger on a 14a battery. Or said another way by formula, we need to charge a 14a battery with a 1.4 amp rated battery for literally 14 hours . Same formula of using a 1.2 amp rated battery for 12 solid hours. A smart charger will up the amps and cycle the LED lights on the charger till it shows green, once it runs thru the red light sequence of hours till it says fully charged.

3. Say a constant charger you have now say a 1.5a or looking for a cheap constant that reads on the back, 1.5 amp rated. No problem for a 1.4 or a 1.2 amp rated battery. Say you run an hour or so less with a 1.2 rated battery. The point is not to overheat the plates inside that begin to boil large bubbles and tear open the fiber pleats, but rather the safer champagne size bubbles out of the pleats.

3. We now have a well charged battery that reads off the charger 12.8v or higher. The battery is now ready to install for service. So with battery installed, key on only, the battery is showing 12.8v or higher. We are watching a voltmeter at the battery and do not let the eyes leave the meter while watching the sequence of events. 12.6v is the least amount shown, meaning, it needs to be charged back up to12.8v again.

4. We now press the start button, and this is like a bench test/load test of the starter motor. This shows a load test to the battery's ability to: PUSH. Push means volts. So we want to see how good is the reserve to continue to PUSH the starter over and return to 12.8v once the bike starts and idles. So if it returns to 12.8v immediately, it shows a good battery with reserve.

5. The meter is going to show 14.4v once the bike starts. That is why you have to see the return number back to 12.8v before the voltage regulator kicks in to 14v+. This will show a good stator putting out, a good battery that can PUSH a starter motor over, a battery with reserve to PUSH.

6. Say the bike is idling and the meter shows a steady 12.8v. This will show a bad stator. It is now a beer run bike and a short hop to the liquor store, while keeping the bike running. The draw down my show 10.?v and recovery is now 12.2v because of the PUSH needed to turn the starter motor over. High tail it home and don't use the high beam or touch the brake light because you are running what is called 'total loss' in the racing type scene. No stator used, no lights, because the electronics will take a shit if down to 12v or below. Call AAA at this point to get you home.

7. Say the meter shows 16-17v. This shows a bad voltage regulator. By watching the meter, it will pinpoint who of the 3 components of the charging system is at fault. We here at fuck that shit shop do not use an ohm meter to figure out if the stator has said book resistance, nor book spec to show the V/R wire resistances, nor a battery load test machine at pep-boys.

Signed,
NOLTT

Actually charge current should be a minimum of 10% and a max of 25% (20% is safer max).
Charging a 14A/hr battery with a 1.4A charger should result in a charge time of 10 hours (not 14hrs 10hrs x1.4=14A) likewise 12A with a 1.2A charger will need same 10hrs.
There are charging systems that will as soon as that bike is running be engaged and leave an oppurtunity to see battery bounce back to 12.8 -- to test this may require removal of the vr wire to the battery temporarily.
A good charging system will show above 12.8 volts at idle but may not be at 13.8 to 14.4 till about 2000 rpms.
12.8 at idle and no increase when revved to 2-2500rpms could be stator or VR or blown fuse in line to battery.

 

[Sven]

Mike, I hear ya, but this was Yuasa's formula of time. The numbers I used were real world numbers, because I setup a volt meter to the bike and watched this all happen.

Called Yuasa and asked what is the shelf life of a dry battery? Bought a leftover bike that came with a dry battery. Tech told me they buy the competitors battery, charge it up fully, then bring down the battery to about 1-2v and then recharge it. The sequence was drop the volts 3 times and the 3rd charge up was ready to install the battery for service.

So I did that and the one battery lasted 9yrs, where just wet and charge it for said hours lasted only 5yrs.

 

[Jersey Big Mike]

Mike, I hear ya, but this was Yuasa's formula of time. The numbers I used were real world numbers, because I setup a volt meter to the bike and watched this all happen.

Called Yuasa and asked what is the shelf life of a dry battery? Bought a leftover bike that came with a dry battery. Tech told me they buy the competitors battery, charge it up fully, then bring down the battery to about 1-2v and then recharge it. The sequence was drop the volts 3 times and the 3rd charge up was ready to install the battery for service.

So I did that and the one battery lasted 9yrs, where just wet and charge it for said hours lasted only 5yrs.

I get that may have been real world results but unless you were measuring AMPS and VOLTS, it's not 100% accurate -- Just because a charger is rated at 1.5A doesn't mean it actually does it many times (real world testing)
I've read to charge and discharge 2-3 time befor putting into action though I have never seen the discharge to 1-2v as that frequently can cause issues for some batteries.
I don't use Yusua anymore as I prefer AGM (sealed) batteries overall. (Persoanl preference.)