AIH: Clutch out

[Gas Man]

Ok guys... another bad clutch. This time on a AIH Legend. He has been battling clutch freeplay. He will adjust the clutch and the freeplay and within about 30-40miles the freeplay is so bad that clutch doesn't work. Cable still moves, unlike House's, but don't work worth a shit.

Pulled the outer primary, and the diaphram spring and the plate pack. While There doesn't seem to be any warpage or discoloring. The fibers are nearly smooth. The segments on the fibers are almost smooth.

The tranny nut is tight. A AIH dealer says they don't have any carrier problems so I don't think that is the problem. But may go back to the garage and pull the clutch basket?

Would this be a cause the freeplay in the clutch to go out constantly?

Any other ideas?

I will call Bandit and speak to John but they are already closed. Will check with him on Monday but want to get more ideas. I think the clutch is gone...

OH and no service manual cause they don't make one... Thanks alot AIH!!:down:

 

[BBChopper]

Hope ya dont want your old one back dude!!

That sucks hope ya get it worked out bro!! Wish I could help!!!:2thumbs:

 

[Gas Man]

Well tore the the primary apart...

Outer gone

The tranny nut was tight.

Front sprocket and clutch basket out of here

No carrier scars on the primary as the tranny nut told.

The AIH clutch basket and carrier are so much stronger looking than the Baker DSSC setup and this one is great condition

My prediction to the problem. The clutch fibers are gone. IMO I didn't have my mikes so I couldn't check their thickness. But I don't believe there is enough measurement between the segments on the fibers. Also, noticed while pulling the plates... they were sticking together REALLY bad/well.

What do you guys think? Those fibers give a rider problems as described above??

He has been battling clutch freeplay. He will adjust the clutch and the freeplay and within about 30-40miles the freeplay is so bad that clutch doesn't work. Cable still moves, unlike House's, but don't work worth a shit.

 

[MN K9]

Did the clutch slip? If it did, I'd say the clutch is eating itself up. But, you wouldn't think it would change so fast.

If it wasn't slipping I'd say the friction discs aren't the problem.

Cable stretching/fraying ready to break?

 

[MN K9]

Was the oil that came out of the primary full of clutch fiber material? Or was it fairly clean looking?

Was there any crud (dirt/metal) in between the discs that could have caused them to bind?

 

[Gas Man]

He never said anything about it slipping

I'm not sure about the cable...

The oil while still light brown... was also very sparkly. I think it was fiber as there was no marks on any metal.

The only thing between the discs was oil as shown in pics. I just didn't like the way they stuck together.

Could it be the diaphram spring tension?

Bike only has 7k on it but the previous owner didn't take care of it very well IMO.

 

[Gas Man]

Also should state what my BDM manual says.

"... If the amount of force needed to pull the clutch increases, it is an indication of clutch wear"

Well when the adjustment and freeplay goes out... the clutch pull is insane hard and with no distinct grab.

Also states...

"When you can no longer see the segments on the fiber portion of the fiber plates, they need to be replaced."

 

[lee]

have you looked at the ball and ramp assembly? could it be seazing up / bearings worn? also sounds like a new cable would be a good idea

 

[Gas Man]

We did pull that apart a bit... nothing looked out of normal... but maybe we should look again... I will go pull that all apart Sat

 

[Thumper]

He never said anything about it slipping

Bike only has 7k on it but the previous owner didn't take care of it very well IMO.

I just put a clutch in 06 Outlaw with 7K on it. This one is hydraulic. This moron didnt even realize it was slipping. First took it out and nailed, never went just rev'd. They have a goofy roller on the clutch lever that rides against the master. The roller was almost flat. Guess he is a clutch rider. The other thing is that the clutch pull is harder on the hand than the dog. This is not the first AIH that I have felt that on. Gimme a cable anyday

 

[alhall88]

Can't tell by the pics but it looks to be a left side drive? If it it that would explain why its much beefier. Looking at the clutch plates I doubt thats the issue because there is some pad on it for one and two you said he ends up loosing the clutch freeplay after 30 miles and no mention of slippage. I tend to agree with the cable theory. Try to put it all back together and (without any fluid and outer primary cover) and readjust the cable and keep excercising the cable and see what happens. Also make sure he's not using any synthetic fluid in that primary clutch plates don't like that shit.

 

[TCALZ06]

Gas,

Did that primary have the keepers on a lot of the bolts so they cant back out?
I helped a friend put his trans back in and was surprised how many had them

Seems like a good idea. Wish ours had them

 

[MN K9]

He never said anything about it slipping

I'm not sure about the cable...

The oil while still light brown... was also very sparkly. I think it was fiber as there was no marks on any metal.

The only thing between the discs was oil as shown in pics. I just didn't like the way they stuck together.

Could it be the diaphram spring tension? QUOTE]

The capillary attraction between the oil and discs will cause them to feel like they are sticking together. I've noticed the same thing while servicing clutch discs in limited slip rearends in cars and trucks.

The diaphram spring might acount for the clutch being hard to pull, but it shouldn't change the free play so fast. Check the spring shape by laying it on a flat surface and checking where it touches the surface.

 

[Big Dog Rod]

Chris,
Looks like the friction material is gone from some of the plates. I have the friction disc and the plates out of my 05 if it will work in his...my plates and friction disc are good. As you know I put a new Bandit in due the carrier failure. I can UPS the complete set-up to you Monday it is your for free if you can use it...has 3800 miles on it.

 

[Gas Man]

Al... its actually a RSD bike. But you can see from the primary... the primary is for a LSD. Fuckin AIH I tell ya. He has adjusted the clutch like a dozen times... never seems to help. He also was running revtech primary oil in the primary.

Tcal... the inner primary does have lockers on it. Just like my BDM did. Even the diaphram spring plate had lockers on it.

MN.... I was also concerned about the diaphram spring. But unsure about how to check it for proper tension.

I did go back over there today. We pulled the whole ball ramp assembly apart again, cleaned it out. It looks fine. It is the same unit as Chacha's in his thread http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/how/1432-clutch-pushrod-inspection-lubrication-how.html Pulled it all apart, cleaned it, inspected it, checked to make sure it rises well and re-greased it.

I also took some measurements of the fibers. There is only .008 difference between the segments on the fibers. Also, measured the steels, and the pack all together. Its a Primo clutch pack according to the diaphram spring. So I plan on calling them with my measurements as well on the clutch pack.

 

[bdmridgeback]

That is very close setup or is a Rivera Clutch just like what came on the 2004 and older BDM bikes. Just a Basic HD clutch setup. And those discs don't look very bad. Could use replacing soon, but they don't look like they would be to the point of not being able to get the clutch hooked up.

 

[Gas Man]

Its not that it wouldn't hook up. Its that he can't get it to break free. It won't disengage.

 

[bdmridgeback]

Well if the plates were worn out it would not engage completely, but in this case is is not getting enough throw or push off the pushrod.

I would say it has something to do with a worn out cable if you say the ramp/balls are in great shape. If the plates would be too thick then you would not be able to get it to disengage as well, but it's a used clutch so that would have to be ruled out.

Does that bike have a hydro clutch on it or a cable? I know somewhere around 2006-07 they started puting hydraulic clutches on them. In that case the piston maybe sticking a bit and not getting the pressure it needs to completely disengage it.

I would start by checking cable length compared to a new one.

 

[alhall88]

Look on page #8 shows position of a properly adjusted clutch.http://www.riveraengineering.com/BRUTE_IV_EXTREME_INST.pdf

 

[Gas Man]

Its a cable cluch. As far as comparing the length the problem we have is the lack of crediable places to get info. Remember AIH is closed, the biggest dealership in Texas only has ONE person in service and has only been there for like 9 months.

Sul... are you saying Revtech primary oil wouldn't be correct for his AIH/Primo setup?

Al... that is the way it was adjusted. You can adjust it to those specs. It will be fine for a while then poof, it goes all to shit. When it does; the clutch doesn't disengage, at idle you have to hold the bike with the brakes, and you can't get nuetral.

I also noticed yesterday when I got the plates outside in the sun (his garage has poor lighting) that the steels have some darkness on the edges vs the brighter silver in the centers.

Lee, when you were having problems with your clutch rod what were the symptoms?