09 EFI wire plus issue

[speebeep]

2009 Big Dog K-9 EFI
Just completed the WP374 and WP383 installation. Everything works EXCEPT it will not fire when the start button is pressed.
Here is what I have.
The coil measurements are good: Red to yellow - 0.7 ohm, Red to blue - 0.7 ohm
plug wire to plug wire - 13k ohm
When I turn the ignition switch on, the injectors prime and I get 13.5v at the red wire of the coil for about 2 seconds and then it goes to 0v and all speedo/tach lights come on. Once I press the start button I do not get any voltage at the coil nor at the relay that sends voltage to the coil.

I checked the WP module that has the led lights and the ignition and accessories led are lit and the compression release, start input and start output light-up when I press the start button.

I am going to connect a computer to the S&S VFI unit and use protune to see if I can see any problems there.

I am stumped :bang:. Any thoughts is well appreciated as I am frustrated.

 

[speebeep]

Ok, I believe I am at least on the right track. I connected the S&S VFI unit to a PC and used S&S Protune II to connect to it. It is stating that I have 6 trouble codes. I have attached a screenshot of those codes. If anyone know what the issue might be please reply. Something is off cause the bike is cold but the temps are showing extreme numbers. Possibly an exposed wire or faulty ground? I am calling S&S tomorrow to see if I can get some assistance.

 

[BigDogBro1]

Years back Wire+ had wrong info in the instructions for wire connections on an EFI bike. Not sure it was ever corrected.

The EFI module must have constant power going to it from the battery and if I recall it had something to do with A1 and an A-1 (DASH) designation. There is also switched power to it as well. There are wires somewhere which are improperly connected.

Maybe Paul (pknowles) can respond with more help.

 

[speebeep]

BigDogBro1,
Thanks for the info. I did actually run constant power to EFI. Wires plus must have changed their wiring instructions because it did include wiring the A1 and A-1. Everything actually wired pretty good. I only had the few wires that they stated did not go anywhere left over.

I spoke with S&S today, Tom, and he told me some wires to check for the error codes I am pulling. I am hoping this will fix the issue. I will post back once I take a look at it.
Thanks again

 

[speebeep]

Well, no luck with the wires. Everything appears to be fine. I am getting ground and voltage to the appropriate sensor. I wish I had a reading I could go by to test each sensor but logic tells me it is not all of the sensors I have codes for. I am starting to believe it is an issue with the VFI module; I have also seen this unit called an ECM and EFI unit.

I am working to see if I can get a map file from S&S for the VFI unit and see if I can reinstall the program. Maybe it somehow got corrupted. Will keep updating.

 

[BigDogBro1]

Is the EFI power relay getting energized when trying to start the engine? On my 2007 it is on the LH horn side.

This relay feeds power to O2, fuel pump, coil and ??? so not sure how Wires+ handles it.

 

[speebeep]

No, not when I hit the start button but it is energized as soon as you turn the key on. I get 2 seconds of fuel pump and voltage to the coil. I even tried to hit the start button during the 2 second interval and nothing.

I did check on the wire plus power module that all of the proper led's are on and that the ignition input and ignition output come on when I hit the start button, so I know it is getting the signal from the start button. My thoughts is that the VFI module is possibly blocking, due to the error codes, the signal to tell the relay to energize; at least that is my two cents.

I did think about putting a small circuit with a CB/fuse into the signal side of the relay so I could energize the relay manually to see if I could start it but I do am hesitant to do so.

I have a call into S&S to see about a reset procedure for the VFI since it changed when the wire plus was added.

 

[speebeep]

I have found a little more information. I do get constant voltage at the EFI relay but the ground is removed from the EFI circuit. On the wiring diagram the ground to the EFI relay shows it being a control relay. So I wonder if the error codes I am getting out of the EFI unit is causing the relay to remain open.
I'll keep posting as this might help someone in the future.

 

[Brew]

I dont believe you need to push the run button. Turn on the key, let the fuel pump do it's thing and push the start button. The run button acts as a kill switch once the wires-plus is installed... :2thumbs:

 

[speebeep]

ok, the problem is fixed and the bike runs again.

Here is what I did to solve the problem.

I called S&S Cycles and spoke to Tom in the EFI department. He stated to check all the wires coming from the TPS, Air intake Temp sensor, Engine Temp sensor and see if there is a short somewhere. I told him I was getting some crazy readings via the ProTune software. Here is a screenshot of the errors I was getting. (see attachment named SnS ProTune II screenshot.JPG) unfortunately i do not have a screenshot of the gauges because I was getting 482 deg engine temp and 2xx deg intake air temp which is WAY off.

I checked every wire back to the 36-pin plug that goes to the VFI module (ECM) and everything was fine.

I was able to contact another Big Dog Biker user who had a 2009 service manual. He sent me the pages on trouble shooting the engine and air intake temp sensors. They both pointed to the ECM being the problem.

I contacted Tom at S&S Cycles again and told him what I found. He stated that sometimes if the ECM receives a spike in input voltage or signal that it could corrupt the ECM box file. He sent me an updated box file for the 2009 Big Dog K-9 and told me to update the ECM with the new file.
I have posted that file (see attachment named - BDM_Original 986ac281.zip) if anyone needs to use it. It will LOCK your ECM but it fixed my problem.

As soon as the upload of the new file completed, the temps of both sensors in the ProTune software changed to correct readings and there were no more error codes. I reached up and hit the start button and it fired right up.

I posted two screenshots (named - After ecm reprogrammed.JPG and During Run Test.JPG)

I can't think enough Tom at S&S Cycles for his time helping me troubleshoot the issues and also for Cody sending me the pages from his service manual and for everyone else input. I hope this helps someone to fix their issues.

If anyone has any questions regarding the Wire Plus install or ECM issues please let me know. I will be more than happy to help.

 

[BigDogBro1]

Happy to hear you got it running well. Tom is a huge asset to us Bigdog EFI owners.

I assume your ECM that you just reloaded was an unlocked version?

If it was an unlocked version, why in the world would you want to LOCK it so you can't make any future map changes?

And why couldn't Tom at S&S provide you with a fresh reload file that would keep the ECM in an unlocked state?

 

[Jwooky]

I have the "off road" unlocked version. I agree, why would anyone lock an unlocked ECU.

 

[jjarkys]

Sticky? Good info

 

[speebeep]

I really didn't think about that. Whoops. I actually could not change anything is the existing state of the ECM so I went with what Tom sent me. It got me running so I was happy. I should have asked for a unlocked version. Oh well, not much I can do now. But if anyone reads this, ask for an unlocked version.

ride hard friends.