BigMack73
High-Tech RedNeck Rider
07 K-9 Engine is Hard to Start and/or Locks Up during Start
Have an 07 K-9 bought in late Summer 2006 that has historically had some Flaky electrical woes, but now is developing into real problems NOT-Starting, and cutting off while running. I have scoured the Threads, How-Tos, here in the BDB Forums but just have not found the answers I need to resolve! Hope I can explain and get the 'next step' help...
Few things about me:
1. I do Field Service, Electronics (former US Air Force Computers geek), BUT, although I used to work on all my trail bikes and dirt bikes growing up, I DO NOT like touching my K-9 big V-Twin but understand the concepts of repair.
2. My long time Big Dog Dealer/shop I had all previous repair and maintenance work done has closed down, have not figured/found a new place to take K-9 for repairs in the last 3-4 months!
3. Looking to start trying obvious repairs, connections, easy part changes first to eliminate paying for simple stuff. Guess I need to "Take Charge" of my Dog... (Stop being a pussy in other words!)
History of Bike Repairs:
K-9 has always had sluggish starting issues since purchase. Bike tends to turn-over very slow especially first crank, often stopping dead in first half second of turn-over like pistons hit a wall. Many times this followed by split second horn beep and idiot lights four-way lights flashing. Worse in cold weather below 55 degrees, luckily I live in Florida, not a problem but 2-3 months at worst! K-9 almost NEVER starts on cold morning below 45 degrees.
- Usually Turning key off, back on, waiting a few seconds seems to clear and she starts OK.
- Big Dog dealership swore to me Battery OK, Compression Releases OK, Starter OK, Ignition OK. I would badger them when I brought it for servicing (mainly worried that I wanted to get these repaired while still under Warranty if needed).
K-9 has ALWAYS had original Speedo issues, random days either 'N' or Oil light would stay lit or come on at wrong/incorrect times, Speed Needle would either NOT work at all, oscillate erratically +/- 10-15mph at steady speed, or stick around 30-45 mph. Various times Miles Odometer will not clock up new miles.
(Only good thing is, I have about 11,500-12K miles driven on a Bike that shows 4996 currently... HAHA).
The above have been my constant "companions" for the past 5.5 years with my girl! On many days riding I have no issues at all for 5 years, then on some days she is like the Excorsist and her head spins around. Dealer refused to ever change the Speedo, seeing as it always seemed to 'work fine' when I drove it in for oil change or maintenance. Later I realized that the enormity of the Big Dog Speedo issue was that they were never going to resolve it!
- I have had K-9 on a Battery Tender since the first day brought home. It was on the orginal factory battery until just a week ago, still the same Tender Jr. as well. Even though every time I brought it to Big Dog dealer for issues, they always lectured me that I needed to keep the battery fully charged and all my issues would go away. I would remind them of the over-priced Tender Jr. they sold me! (79.95 when I found I could have bought it anywhere for 30-40 dollars less... OK, so I was a Chump! HAHA). But, it stung to be told it was my fault for not charging a battery when YOU sold me the GD overpriced charger!! Just sayin...
Major repairs (other than oil change/tune-ups):
1. Voltage Regulator repaired under warranty/recall Fall 2009 (said mine had a VR from a known potentially defective batch?), this seemed to help with the sluggish starting woes and at times the problem I took it in for which was re-starting K-9 if I had only ridden for less than 15-20 minutes. VR seemed to resolve these issues, but NOT the Speedo flakiness, random Cut-offs while driving, nor the NOT-staring at all below 45-50 degrees F.
2. Problem Shifting. Shifting into Neutral Fall of 2010. Took K-9 in for repair, found that during last tune-up someone had replaced a linkage bolt with one that was too long, bolt had ground a rut into my primary (something like that) Dealer replaced all that and repairs under warranty due to their negligence. However, when I drove away from dealer, got 4-5 miles away and Bike cut off completely. No key toggles, nothing, dead. Dealer came and trailered bike back, had it 2 weeks, found problem was Ignition Module?
- While there so long had Dealer install Low Pull Clutch (GREAT Upgrade!!)
- Someone at dealer accidentally tore hole in paint on my tank, dealer sent for local re-paint/repair. While there, found threads on Gas Cap had sheared out, replaced my Gas Cap with Newer type with Click relief to prevent over Torquing.
End result that is pertinent... New Ignition (whatever was replaced), seemed to give me the most error free riding year of 2011.
Dealership closed in Winter 2011 and I got 5000-7500 mile servicing done (hard to tell since my Odometer has ALWAYS been intermittant! I tried to explain to them it was most likely more like 10K servicing...)
Since that servicing, the bike came back and started the current issues, but, I have no where to take it back to since they closed.
CURRENT PROBLEM: Engine is Hard to Start and/or Locks Up during Start.
When I turn the key, all indications are OK, Speedo goes through its start-up pattern, etc. Wait the usual 2-3 seconds, then hit run button. No throttle (ever, never have needed it on cold start) nor Enrichener knob. Hit Start button, and hear/feel starter engage and cylinders start to turn-over then Stops dead like the pistons hit a wall! All lights flash on Speedo, and many times the horn will emit a split-second beep.
Try recycle of starting routine, Key Off/ wait 10-15 seconds. Try it all over Again.
At first 3 out of 4 times on the second try it would sluggishly turn-over and crank like normal.
It has done that for about 2-3 months off and on. Now it only starts about 1 out of 4 times. The 3 of 4 unsuccessful Cranks I retry starting it 5-6 times before I can tell the battery was now running down (from the lack of vigorousness in the initial half turn of the crank) and then would have to put the Tender back on to re-charge the Battery.
Had Biker/rider friends who were mechanics give me advice. Several (including from my experience reading these Forums) suggested I was LUCKY to have gotten 5.5 years on my original BDM battery given the history with VR and Ignition Modules going out. So I thought hey, buy a new battery!
1. Bought and Installed a new TruGel Battery MG20L-BS, got it through a friend for just over $100, I charged it initially with my Schumacher SC-1200A charger I use for my Fleet Work truck Gel battery (it has a Gel Battery mode). Took the big step to install it in the Big Dog myself and WHAM! same symptoms... (Yes, I was really expecting to fix this myself, the 'old battery' sounded like a great starting place, and the new TruGel has 30-40 more CCA, all of which sounded really great!)
- Placed K-9 New TruGel battery back on charger, came back later in the afternoon and this time tried manually pressing the compression releases before cranking. This time the K-9 did start up fine, a little sluggish as usual, but cranked right up on the second turn over like always when it cranks, wife and I rode to one of our favorite spots to eat about 25 minutes drive. I am thinking, OK, must be issue with compression releases, so I am OK. Wife and I get on bike to leave and symptoms return! Tries to crank, turns over half turn stops/locks up and lights flash (although NO horn beep this time), even trying manual compression release did not help.
- I accidentally tried to crank it the 4th time thru my routine and did not get clutch pulled in while bike was in 1st gear. K-9 leerched forward about a foot (as it does if I am stupid and leave bike in gear while cranking...) best part of this stupidity, the next time I recycled Key Off/On usual start routine, she cranked right up like nothing had happened. Noticed though that on the entire ride home Speedo was working BUT, noticed that Odometer had clocked NO miles at all since leaving home. Knew this cause left home at 4996miles showing and thought to myself "the K-9 with 10K miles was FINALLY going to turn over 5K"!! Got her home, put it on the charger and it said the Battery was at 64% level. Thought this was odd since I had been driving for almost 25 minutes since cranks, but, had cranked it a lot at the restuarant.
2. Today I tried visually checking connections around my Starter, cables leading from starter to ECH/battery, checked ECH connectors for water, most appear sound to me, but for a Broadband Field Engineer, I SUCK at big V-Twin repairs! HAHA
3. Today I also tried starting it again, K-9 would not start, same symptoms. Only turns over about half crank stops dead, lights flash, again today No split second horn beep. Tired cranking process 6-7 times, noticed cranking vigor going way down, stopped, placed Shumacher charger on TruGel it said it started around 49%.
So I am wondering what the next steps should be?
Here are a few suggestions biker mechanic buddies gave:
1. New TruGel battery could be weak/possibly bad?
2. Problems with Compression Reliefs on S&S Engine?
3. Potential Shorts, Connection, Wiring Harness Issues I can not easily see.
4. Problems with Starter/VR/Ignition drawing down Battery on initial Crank. Also contributing to possible lack of charging properly while driving?
5. Problems with ECH not sending Voltages where it needed to be!
All sound reasonable, especially given the history of this 07 K-9! When she runs/cranks OK she is a dream (like Nothing ever happened bad at all). When she bites the hand that feeds her, she is a flaky, poor starting, inconsiderate bitch....
Problem is I can't trust the K-9 now to take wife anywhere. Missed Daytona Bike Week scared to get away from home and be stranded!
Please help! Suggestions on next things to check, that I could try, else next step is for me to find a new shop that will repair Dogs!
Thanks,
Gary "BigMack" Mack
Williston, Florida
Have an 07 K-9 bought in late Summer 2006 that has historically had some Flaky electrical woes, but now is developing into real problems NOT-Starting, and cutting off while running. I have scoured the Threads, How-Tos, here in the BDB Forums but just have not found the answers I need to resolve! Hope I can explain and get the 'next step' help...
Few things about me:
1. I do Field Service, Electronics (former US Air Force Computers geek), BUT, although I used to work on all my trail bikes and dirt bikes growing up, I DO NOT like touching my K-9 big V-Twin but understand the concepts of repair.
2. My long time Big Dog Dealer/shop I had all previous repair and maintenance work done has closed down, have not figured/found a new place to take K-9 for repairs in the last 3-4 months!
3. Looking to start trying obvious repairs, connections, easy part changes first to eliminate paying for simple stuff. Guess I need to "Take Charge" of my Dog... (Stop being a pussy in other words!)
History of Bike Repairs:
K-9 has always had sluggish starting issues since purchase. Bike tends to turn-over very slow especially first crank, often stopping dead in first half second of turn-over like pistons hit a wall. Many times this followed by split second horn beep and idiot lights four-way lights flashing. Worse in cold weather below 55 degrees, luckily I live in Florida, not a problem but 2-3 months at worst! K-9 almost NEVER starts on cold morning below 45 degrees.
- Usually Turning key off, back on, waiting a few seconds seems to clear and she starts OK.
- Big Dog dealership swore to me Battery OK, Compression Releases OK, Starter OK, Ignition OK. I would badger them when I brought it for servicing (mainly worried that I wanted to get these repaired while still under Warranty if needed).
K-9 has ALWAYS had original Speedo issues, random days either 'N' or Oil light would stay lit or come on at wrong/incorrect times, Speed Needle would either NOT work at all, oscillate erratically +/- 10-15mph at steady speed, or stick around 30-45 mph. Various times Miles Odometer will not clock up new miles.
(Only good thing is, I have about 11,500-12K miles driven on a Bike that shows 4996 currently... HAHA).
The above have been my constant "companions" for the past 5.5 years with my girl! On many days riding I have no issues at all for 5 years, then on some days she is like the Excorsist and her head spins around. Dealer refused to ever change the Speedo, seeing as it always seemed to 'work fine' when I drove it in for oil change or maintenance. Later I realized that the enormity of the Big Dog Speedo issue was that they were never going to resolve it!
- I have had K-9 on a Battery Tender since the first day brought home. It was on the orginal factory battery until just a week ago, still the same Tender Jr. as well. Even though every time I brought it to Big Dog dealer for issues, they always lectured me that I needed to keep the battery fully charged and all my issues would go away. I would remind them of the over-priced Tender Jr. they sold me! (79.95 when I found I could have bought it anywhere for 30-40 dollars less... OK, so I was a Chump! HAHA). But, it stung to be told it was my fault for not charging a battery when YOU sold me the GD overpriced charger!! Just sayin...
Major repairs (other than oil change/tune-ups):
1. Voltage Regulator repaired under warranty/recall Fall 2009 (said mine had a VR from a known potentially defective batch?), this seemed to help with the sluggish starting woes and at times the problem I took it in for which was re-starting K-9 if I had only ridden for less than 15-20 minutes. VR seemed to resolve these issues, but NOT the Speedo flakiness, random Cut-offs while driving, nor the NOT-staring at all below 45-50 degrees F.
2. Problem Shifting. Shifting into Neutral Fall of 2010. Took K-9 in for repair, found that during last tune-up someone had replaced a linkage bolt with one that was too long, bolt had ground a rut into my primary (something like that) Dealer replaced all that and repairs under warranty due to their negligence. However, when I drove away from dealer, got 4-5 miles away and Bike cut off completely. No key toggles, nothing, dead. Dealer came and trailered bike back, had it 2 weeks, found problem was Ignition Module?
- While there so long had Dealer install Low Pull Clutch (GREAT Upgrade!!)
- Someone at dealer accidentally tore hole in paint on my tank, dealer sent for local re-paint/repair. While there, found threads on Gas Cap had sheared out, replaced my Gas Cap with Newer type with Click relief to prevent over Torquing.
End result that is pertinent... New Ignition (whatever was replaced), seemed to give me the most error free riding year of 2011.
Dealership closed in Winter 2011 and I got 5000-7500 mile servicing done (hard to tell since my Odometer has ALWAYS been intermittant! I tried to explain to them it was most likely more like 10K servicing...)
Since that servicing, the bike came back and started the current issues, but, I have no where to take it back to since they closed.
CURRENT PROBLEM: Engine is Hard to Start and/or Locks Up during Start.
When I turn the key, all indications are OK, Speedo goes through its start-up pattern, etc. Wait the usual 2-3 seconds, then hit run button. No throttle (ever, never have needed it on cold start) nor Enrichener knob. Hit Start button, and hear/feel starter engage and cylinders start to turn-over then Stops dead like the pistons hit a wall! All lights flash on Speedo, and many times the horn will emit a split-second beep.
Try recycle of starting routine, Key Off/ wait 10-15 seconds. Try it all over Again.
At first 3 out of 4 times on the second try it would sluggishly turn-over and crank like normal.
It has done that for about 2-3 months off and on. Now it only starts about 1 out of 4 times. The 3 of 4 unsuccessful Cranks I retry starting it 5-6 times before I can tell the battery was now running down (from the lack of vigorousness in the initial half turn of the crank) and then would have to put the Tender back on to re-charge the Battery.
Had Biker/rider friends who were mechanics give me advice. Several (including from my experience reading these Forums) suggested I was LUCKY to have gotten 5.5 years on my original BDM battery given the history with VR and Ignition Modules going out. So I thought hey, buy a new battery!
1. Bought and Installed a new TruGel Battery MG20L-BS, got it through a friend for just over $100, I charged it initially with my Schumacher SC-1200A charger I use for my Fleet Work truck Gel battery (it has a Gel Battery mode). Took the big step to install it in the Big Dog myself and WHAM! same symptoms... (Yes, I was really expecting to fix this myself, the 'old battery' sounded like a great starting place, and the new TruGel has 30-40 more CCA, all of which sounded really great!)
- Placed K-9 New TruGel battery back on charger, came back later in the afternoon and this time tried manually pressing the compression releases before cranking. This time the K-9 did start up fine, a little sluggish as usual, but cranked right up on the second turn over like always when it cranks, wife and I rode to one of our favorite spots to eat about 25 minutes drive. I am thinking, OK, must be issue with compression releases, so I am OK. Wife and I get on bike to leave and symptoms return! Tries to crank, turns over half turn stops/locks up and lights flash (although NO horn beep this time), even trying manual compression release did not help.
- I accidentally tried to crank it the 4th time thru my routine and did not get clutch pulled in while bike was in 1st gear. K-9 leerched forward about a foot (as it does if I am stupid and leave bike in gear while cranking...) best part of this stupidity, the next time I recycled Key Off/On usual start routine, she cranked right up like nothing had happened. Noticed though that on the entire ride home Speedo was working BUT, noticed that Odometer had clocked NO miles at all since leaving home. Knew this cause left home at 4996miles showing and thought to myself "the K-9 with 10K miles was FINALLY going to turn over 5K"!! Got her home, put it on the charger and it said the Battery was at 64% level. Thought this was odd since I had been driving for almost 25 minutes since cranks, but, had cranked it a lot at the restuarant.
2. Today I tried visually checking connections around my Starter, cables leading from starter to ECH/battery, checked ECH connectors for water, most appear sound to me, but for a Broadband Field Engineer, I SUCK at big V-Twin repairs! HAHA
3. Today I also tried starting it again, K-9 would not start, same symptoms. Only turns over about half crank stops dead, lights flash, again today No split second horn beep. Tired cranking process 6-7 times, noticed cranking vigor going way down, stopped, placed Shumacher charger on TruGel it said it started around 49%.
So I am wondering what the next steps should be?
Here are a few suggestions biker mechanic buddies gave:
1. New TruGel battery could be weak/possibly bad?
2. Problems with Compression Reliefs on S&S Engine?
3. Potential Shorts, Connection, Wiring Harness Issues I can not easily see.
4. Problems with Starter/VR/Ignition drawing down Battery on initial Crank. Also contributing to possible lack of charging properly while driving?
5. Problems with ECH not sending Voltages where it needed to be!
All sound reasonable, especially given the history of this 07 K-9! When she runs/cranks OK she is a dream (like Nothing ever happened bad at all). When she bites the hand that feeds her, she is a flaky, poor starting, inconsiderate bitch....
Problem is I can't trust the K-9 now to take wife anywhere. Missed Daytona Bike Week scared to get away from home and be stranded!
Please help! Suggestions on next things to check, that I could try, else next step is for me to find a new shop that will repair Dogs!
Thanks,
Gary "BigMack" Mack
Williston, Florida
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Love my bigdog and all her issues..... She is such a bitch!:bang: still the girl for me:up:
