Yet another question, Charging related

[mittens]

Back story:

Bike ran good on test drive, but appeared to have bad battery on test drive cause it did not want to fire back up. Owner said he would replace battery before we returned to pick up bike.
Owner said he replaced battery, Part number is shows cheap battery with only 250 CCAs.. so that sucks. Don't have proof he replaced it, but think he did. Bike runs great, did not want to turn the motor over on a hot start again when getting fuel on the 100 mile trip home. Jump box was in the car following back home just in case, and it spun it over like a champ and fired right up. Once 100 mile trip home was done and bike was in garage, we parked it for the night. The next day, hit the key, or the slam button, still not enough juice. spun it over slowly a few times then stops.

Pulled battery, put on charger, Reinstalled battery, Bike fires up fine.

Put Multi meter on battery:

12.86v resting with Key off.
12.77v Key on but not running.
hit starter Voltage dropps to 7.91v while turning motor, bike spins over and fires up
12.64v at idel, and stays there with small quick reves
Once shut back off reading 12.77v

(I have this procedure on video looking at multi meter) Onything running on bike was the 2 rear tail lights, and the head light.


SO think its all a battery issue? or Stator or voltage regulator?

I searched and found the process to test the stator. all I found on the VR was to watch battery voltage and make sure with hi revs it does not go past 14.7v.

To me I would think it would show more voltage at a idle. But also dont think the voltage drop of 4.86 is normal either...

So where would you start? battery? testing out stuff? once running bike has no issues.

Think I will have battery load tested at auto parts store as well, i know its a shitty battery, and I will replace it, but if I have a charging issue would rather fix that first, so I dont hurt a new 150 dollar AMG, 400CCA battery.

 

[HMAN]

Sounds like your on the right track. Ifn it was me...I'd throw a new battery in and start from there. Weak batteries have caused a multitude of weird issues. It sounds like your charging system is OK. Keep us posted.

 

[mittens]

SO you think the charging system is ok? that was my worry. We where expecting to see 13+ volts with it running.

Maybe its like a boat, and does not charge at idel really? needs some RPMs??

 

[BWG56]

SO you think the charging system is ok? that was my worry. We where expecting to see 13+ volts with it running.

Maybe its like a boat, and does not charge at idel really? needs some RPMs??

From Andrew,
If the charging system is working correctly, it will charge the battery at idle...usually around 14 VDC
If the voltage fluctuates a lot at battery when the motor rpm's are changing, then you most likely have a bad rotor or stator. If you not getting enough volts, at least 13 VDC, then you probably have a bad voltage regulator. If over 14.6 VDC, then your voltage regulator is bad as well.
A typical test on a good stator will show around 19 VAC at idle, and climb up around 50 VAC at 3000 rpm. You also want to check with an Ohm meter for any opens to ground in the stator.
Have you had th primary open yet to check the Rotor? Sometimes the front Compensator sprocket nut will loosen up and cause the rotor to fail. The inner splines end up grinding off from the splines on the output shaft of the crank.
I would say, replace what is broken...why spend the money on a high output 3 phase if you don't need it?

 

[mittens]

But when the bike was rode 50 miles... in the rpms on the highway... and shut off, it only spun the motor over 3 slow turns.. then it needed a jump box.

think that's just the weak ass battery (250 CCAs), or the bike draining the battery cause its not charging?

Would I not see voltage jump with the small quick revs? Or does it have to be a LONG higher rev to see anything?

 

[mittens]

The bike does have a chrome Compu-fire Voltage regulator.

 

[woodbutcher]

if everything is in working order, the battery should be charged back up from the cranking in about 20 minutes of riding. sounds like the VR. but would put a decent battery in anyway. that 250cca ain't long for this world.

 

[mittens]

Will a charged, 250CCA battery start a hot motor?

Like in this case, battery worked, started, then rode 50 miles... then would not start back up... so would 250 CCA battery be enough to fire up a hot 107

 

[francoblay1]

Will a charged, 250CCA battery start a hot motor?

Like in this case, battery worked, started, then rode 50 miles... then would not start back up... so would 250 CCA battery be enough to fire up a hot 107

Have you ascertained if your 107 has CRs yet?

 

[mittens]

No I assumed all of them had them. But now what you mention it.... would you see them sticking out of the head?


I see no wires coming out the top center like I saw on the compression release threads. But I did not know how far down in there they are...

 

[francoblay1]

No, you will not see them sticking out... you need to push with your finger on there... they could be manual ones.. if they are manual.. no wires.

 

[haze324]

Braile 2015 battery. I would start with a better battery, you're going to want one regardless.

I have an 03, 107inch with no comp releases and it fires right up everytime with zero hesitation.

 

[mittens]

I understand it needs a beter battery. That wil happen and probably a braile. But I dont want to put a new battery in and then discharge the shit out of it if its a charging problem...




Just checked, when you put your finger in the hole on the top of the head, you can feel a rubber ball/cover (like a lawnmower primer button) and when you push it it clicks. Have not felt any wires though...

Does this mean it has manual ones? Or am i just not feeling the wires.

Here I see the rubber cover part over the release and how they fit in the head.. but where the wires go or how they get out of the head?

 

[firedog19]

For one thing you need a larger battery at least 375 ccas to crank that motor it should have electric compression releases there is a rubber bubble in the center of the rocker box cover the compression releases are under them you should be able to push down and open them

 

[francoblay1]

I understand it needs a beter battery. That wil happen and probably a braile. But I dont want to put a new battery in and then discharge the shit out of it if its a charging problem...




Just checked, when you put your finger in the hole on the top of the head, you can feel a rubber ball/cover (like a lawnmower primer button) and when you push it it clicks. Have not felt any wires though...

Does this mean it has manual ones?

Yup! for what you r saying it seems that way. Try them out... push them both down and start the bike... you will see if it cranks up easier! :up:

 

[mittens]

again, I unerstand a new battery is in order..... this will happen.

I would like to make sure i dont have another issue before i damage a new battery.. If everyone thinks its just the battery and not the charging system, I will try first.

BUT with only 12.7voltage with it runing... it seams odd, then it not firing off once hot.. seams odd as well.

BUT maybe its just the weak ass battery dont have the balls for the hot motor, charged or not.

So these compression releases.. with ruber, could be either or? or electric will have the bubbles?

 

[francoblay1]

again, I unerstand a new battery is in order..... this will happen.

I would like to make sure i dont have another issue before i damage a new battery.. If everyone thinks its just the battery and not the charging system, I will try first.

BUT with only 12.7voltage with it runing... it seams odd, then it not firing off once hot.. seams odd as well.

BUT maybe its just the weak ass battery dont have the balls for the hot motor, charged or not.

So these compression releases.. with ruber, could be either or? or electric will have the bubbles?

Both (electric or manual) can have the condom bubble to protect them.

Have you tried them as I said before?

 

[mittens]

nope, I made the assumption they where electric.. But now that I know they can be both. I will try this as well as check voltage after a ride.

start, ride 20-30. come back, and checkk voltage to see it battery is still at a high 12, which it should be if charging is working, if its not then I will go down that road.

But will try the buttons if it does not work with full battery..

 

[Sven]

I would check the stator wire outputs. As stated, the volt/reg seems to be showing it can show voltage, just not showing the stator wires having that 14v at idle. So if the reg can regulate, the battery is just a storage tank and you refill that up with 14v, it seems the battery would suck more out of the vo/reg, but the stator is watt I think might be a way to see if this part of the system is up to spec? So if one wire puts out 16 amps, the other wire puts out 12, see the balance between 2 wires are not even?

 

[mittens]

haha some say battery, some say charging system.. (stator or VR)..


Hmmm

anyone know where a pic is of where I am supposed to test the stator? (where to unplug to get to the 2 prongs) I ask becasue then I can show the picture to my Father who is trouble shooting the bike with me not in country. Would like to have this issue worked out before I make it home.

also does it not hurt the stator to run the bike with the power not going to anything? I know running a car with out the battery hooked up, is bad for the alternator.