Pics of fouled plugs????

[BadBrad]

It makes sense to do the leak down test before breaking into it. I hate to take for granted that I could break it apart and the problem be so obvious when it might be something that's not quite as visible to the naked eye. I may take it to have that done. I lost my compressor along with all my "toys and tools" in a barn fire back in January. I do have 12 point sockets though. That along with allen wrenches and a torque wrench looks like all I'll need for this job. I will have to get the rings compressed to get them back into the cylinder. No need to break it down without putting new rings in, even if that's not the problem for loss of compression. Anything else you guys might do while you're in there?

 

[Vegas]

For a cylinder to have no compression, there has to be a huge problem/leak. Put it at top dead center on the compression stroke. Put the bike in gear and pump 80-100 psi in the cylinder. You are going to see air gushing out the exhuast, intake, or crankcase vent. When you have no compression, there is no need for a leak down tester.

 

[BadBrad]

I found the problem!!!

Not sure how these photos will turn out. I see where a love bug found my problem before I did. Well guys, this may not be a first for you, but it damn sure is for me. The two pics are from the inside of the rocker box. The first pic shows where a screw should be. The second pic shows where it has lodged beside the exhaust valve spring, keeping the valve open, eliminating compression and the ability to pull fuel into the cylinder. I'm not sure if I should just pry it out or pull the rocker box to get a better grip on it. Until I pulled the tank, I didn't see it last night when I pulled the Rocker box lid off. That valve is under the frame and under the tank. Well, good news!!! I don't have a major problem.....I don't think. If I can surgically remove that small bolt without scaring or bending the valve, I may get lucky. FYI. The opposite bolt on the other side of the compression release is 3/4 backed out. It was certainly next!

 

[Vegas]

I can't see the images but your n ot out of the woods yet. You may have a bent exhaust valve from piston contact and potential camshaft damage, not to mention a bent push rod.

 

[BadBrad]

I can't see the images but your n ot out of the woods yet. You may have a bent exhaust valve from piston contact and potential camshaft damage, not to mention a bent push rod.

Vegas, so are you saying that at the very least, I need to pull the head? If there is no contact between the valve and piston, then the cam and pushrod should be good. I'll get started on that and come back later to read your replies. Thanks everyone and I'll let you know what I find.

 

[Raywood]

I'm suprised you didn't hear this banging around or at least the pushrod that is still riding on the cam. If the rocker/spring/valve is locked up with this bolt then something else had to give with the cam action.
I would pull the pushrods and lifters and check out the cam also. :up:

 

[woodbutcher]

damn!

 

[woodbutcher]

this shit is getting way past my little spinning logical mind so i'm going to say "good luck" and slowly close the door on my way out.

 

[DRBarnhart]

I wouldn't plan on pulling the heads just yet.
1- Get the bolt out
2- Visually check for "broken" valve springs or any other damage.
3- Re-install bolts & torque to requirements.
4- rotate motor and check for "excessively loose" valve lash, Indications of a bent valve.
5- If no problems are found, re-check for compression.
6- Still no problems, Fire up and check for problems.

I hope you got lucky!

Couldn't have said it better myself! :2thumbs:

Dennis

 

[DRBarnhart]

If the rocker/spring/valve is locked up with this bolt then something else had to give with the cam action.

But in this case the valve is being held open so all the pushrod would do is move up and down without pushing on anything so it doesn't seem like there'd be any abnormal stesses anywhere.

I would pull the pushrods and lifters and check out the cam also.

That's probably not a bad idea just to make sure you don't have any trouble down the road... :up:

Dennis

 

[BadBrad]

You guys are probably right about just removing the bolt and buttoning it back up, but I'm just 4 bolts away from knowing for sure. I guess I just have to know if the piston made contact with valve, so I pulled the head. No contact but a lot of carbon build up. I cleaned it all up and I feel a lot better for looking. With no contact on the piston and straight push rods, I can only assume that the cam and connecting rods are in good shape too. I'll get some new gaskets and put it all back together and see how it works. Thanks to the forum, I did my first head job! :roll::roll: I hope it was as good for you all that is was for me. I still don't understand why I had no compression. Did the bolt jam the valve open just enough to keep it from sealing but not enough to make contact with the piston? I let you all know how it runs when I get it back together. The cylinder wall looked great, so no need to change the rings.

 

[DRBarnhart]

I guess I just have to know if the piston made contact with valve, so I pulled the head. No contact but a lot of carbon build up.

So what's the winning lotto numbers? You lucky shit!!!

I cleaned it all up and I feel a lot better for looking.

Like the Mastercard commercial, "Piece of mind... priceless!"

With no contact on the piston and straight push rods, I can only assume that the cam and connecting rods are in good shape too.

Not exactly... There's still possibility that the bolt was lodged in such a way that the pushrod had to hit it hard to get it to lodge that way. If you took the head off why not check the rest for piece of mind?

Thanks to the forum, I did my first head job!

You just can't get too much head!!! :roll:

I still don't understand why I had no compression. Did the bolt jam the valve open just enough to keep it from sealing but not enough to make contact with the piston?

So you do know the answer grasshopper... :up:

Dennis

 

[lee]

Best of luck Brad. If you got away with that one you are one lucky mo fo :2thumbs:

 

[DRBarnhart]

(edit; after Brads post)
No Brad, the lose of compression was due to the lose of one bolt and the loosening of the other that hold the compression relief in place.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you here Dead. The bolt that came out and the bolt that was loose don't go all the way in to the compression chamber so as long as the compression relief valve was screwed in tight... true?

Dennis

 

[BadBrad]

And don't you dare to even ask how-to put that motor back together now after pulling down a perfectly good motor!

Don't be hatin' Dead! When I looked into the spark plug hole, I could see "shiney" parts on the piston. It looked scratched up, but it was only differences between clean and carbon surfaces. I already had the rocker box off. 2 bolts on the intake and 4 on the head and I was there. I have to get gaskets anyway. What's one more? I used sandwitch baggies and separated all my bolts/nuts/washers/spacers by bike sections, e.g. rocker box, exhaust, carb, etc. Otherwise, you would be getting an thread saying, "what does this bolt go into?" And you know damn well with all your vast knowledge of the universe, you would jump in there and say, "that goes into the intake....dumbass". Thanks everyone! I'll be riding by the weekend!

 

[MARV]

That's very true Dennis, but what I'm thinking is not the bolts into the compression chamber, but the bolts enabling the relief to unscrew or cock itself in the hole, relieving a small amount of compression constantly.

no bolts to the release it is a unit that screws in.

had mine come loose which caused a loss of compression but it was noisy enough to notice. kind of like a blown head gasket. you can actually pinpoint the leak.

if he couldnt hear the leak then its getting blown out the exhaust on the comp stroke.

 

[BadBrad]

Not exactly... There's still possibility that the bolt was lodged in such a way that the pushrod had to hit it hard to get it to lodge that way. If you took the head off why not check the rest for piece of mind?

Dennis, I appreciate your faith in me to "check the rest". but what exactly are you talking about? The cam and connecting rod? I'm doing good to get this motor back together without having to IM Dead asking "what is this and where does it go?". I'm not to proud. I'll ask 'em before I fuck up my bike. I'm just picking on Dead. I"ll ask any of you before I screw up my ride. To take my bike to the "Stealership", I would have paid several hundred dollars and been without my bike for a week or two. If my gaskets get in by Wednesday, I"ll have her back together by Thursday night. I learn a lot from you guys. Thanks again!

 

[MARV]

S&S rods are tough as hell but since you have them out roll them on a flat surface to make sure they're straight. and like was said the lifters have like .10 of oil cushion so that could of been what saved you from bending anything. also like was said that rod should of been dancing around in there making some noise. check the seat at the roller rocker and the lifter. you can pull the lifter out with a magnet.

you should get the S&S SSW+ manual for the install. it has all steps and TQ's.

good job! nothing better then fixing your bike in your garage! :2thumbs:

 

[BadBrad]

S&S rods are tough as hell but since you have them out roll them on a flat surface to make sure they're straight. and like was said the lifters have like .10 of oil cushion so that could of been what saved you from bending anything. also like was said that rod should of been dancing around in there making some noise. check the seat at the roller rocker and the lifter. you can pull the lifter out with a magnet.

you should get the S&S SSW+ manual for the install. it has all steps and TQ's.

good job! nothing better then fixing your bike in your garage! :2thumbs:

Thanks Sul, I don't have it back together yet, but it's a good feeling to fix your own stuff.

 

[BadBrad]

The push rods roll like they're straight. Certainly nothing obvious! I'll check into getting the SSW+ manual. The last time I took my bike to the shop, it was for a broken valve that had fallen into the cylinder and raised hell. I bought all the parts off ebay (a whole upper end) and still paid close to $800 for labor and gaskets. That's that last good screwing I got and hopefully the last.