Hey 107 owners- what cam U runnin - help me choose!

[LA_Dog]

Hello fellow BDB'ers- Need your input. Ok so latest on my dog is I'm rebuilding the top end due to a melted piston. What a pain in the effing a$$ trying to track down all the right parts for the edelbrock heads, pistons, gaskets etc... After I get this all done I will post a list of parts in case anyone else with an early TP "mutt" motor needs the info. I gotta say the motor has all very good parts in it- they are all just from different sources (SS, TP, Jims, Wiseco, Edelbrock, Crane, etc), with some no longer manufactured. Edelbrock, SS, TP have all been extremely helpful!

I am keeping the edelbrock heads instead of swapping out for SS heads. had a long discussion with Wink Eller today- what a cool guy - he knows all about these specially made edelbrock / BDM heads and says they out perform the SS heads by a long shot / definitely keep em. They are not the same as the 'regular' Edelbrock heads that were for sale on their website. I confirmed this with a sr tech at Edelbrock, and also with a sr tech at JE pistons (they made all of the 4" bore high CR pistons for Wink on these specific heads).

So, I can have JE run me a set of Wink's high CR dome pistons but I gotta buy 4 pistons. that's expensive. my other option is to go with regular SS flat tops and deck the heads to raise CR. My goal is 10.5:1

On to the cam- I have spoken with Bob Wood, Dave Mackie, and of course Wink. Each has given me a unique view on choices and reasoning. The take-away from all this has left me with the following choices:

For ref, my current cam is a Crane 304 600 lift

1. Mackie DM595 @ 10.5:1 - strongest at top end over 5500
2. Mackie DM580 @ 9.8:1 - stronger than the crane across the board
3. Wood W9b @ 10.5:1 - 631 lift Andrews cam with Bob's custom grind
4. Wood W9f @ 10.5:1 - 650 lift Andrews cam with Bob's custom grind
5. S&S 625 cam @ 10.75.1 - suggested by sr tech at JE

I have the baker six OD - I spend most of my riding in town, dodging a__hole drivers, in the 2500-4500 rpm range. Hooker 2-1 header, may change it to a Supertrapp or RB Racing LSR 2-1. I ride my bike like I stole it. XxX Super G carb, Twin Tec ignition

Did I leave anything critical out? What are some of you using, what would you suggest. I've seen some dyno charts of 107's running the Wood 9b / 9f cams putting out 120+ hp/tq numbers. :up:
But of course, longevity is important too. and only using pump 91 gas.

 

[FrankBDPS]

I wish I could give you some Insite.Supposedly my 107 has had a cam installed by the previous owner but he has no info on it.He did show me a dyno sheet it was 111 hp at 106 ft.pounds torque.All I know is it is all I want.Good luck with your project!

 

[RCAdd1ct]

Make sure you cc the heads and give that info to the piston guys.

IMHO I think woods is the best.

For a street bike I would go for torque not hp as you are not planning on racing.

Also watch out for buying a bunch of parts tha are great by themselves but do not play well with others.

I forgot why it melted down in the first place. Do you have an oil cooler?

 

[LA_Dog]

Thanks guys- RC, yep will be CC'ing the heads before buying pistons and have that info handy if I have the custom JE dome tops made. My only option besides that is standard SS flat top pistons, deck head to raise comp, check all clearances given the cam selection, etc. Wink assured me the Edelbrock heads are good even with rowdy cams and super high CR- he's run them upwards of 15:1 without detonation (way more than I'll ever do). Front piston probably melted due to being run too lean too many times, bike had fuel delivery issues initially with the tank liner peeling off. exact cause is unknown.


Yep have a Jagg oil cooler ready to go on - did not have one before.

 

[LA_Dog]

Attached are the Wood and Mackie cam specs for ones that were suggested to me.

Crane 304 specs attached for comparison- seems the 304 has much longer duration (254/260), which from my limited knowledge seems to be bad for TQ/HP but less noisy / easier on valve train?


For the Wood cams, the "W" cam is for Evo,

The "DM" cams are for Evo by Mackie

 

[LA_Dog]

I'm also gonna throw in the S&S 585 cam for comparison- this one seems pretty good for 2500-5500 rpm range on the 107. not sure what HP/TQ numbers to expect @10.5:1 CR though.

585 20˚/45˚60˚/20˚245˚260˚.585" 102.5˚110˚.186".179"


The S&S 625 seems suited for 3000 rpm and above
625 20˚/55˚60˚/20˚255˚260˚.625" 107.5˚110˚.189".184"



There's also the Wood W6HE (631) and W6HF (650), both suited for 10.5:1 CR
Designer Cams





Way too many choices!

 

[Brew]

I would have to say it also depends on what kind of riding you plan on doing. I know there have been comments on here about folks riding in groups with hypo engines and they had a hard time mixing in with the group. Just a suggestion to think about...

 

[LA_Dog]

I would have to say it also depends on what kind of riding you plan on doing. I know there have been comments on here about folks riding in groups with hypo engines and they had a hard time mixing in with the group. Just a suggestion to think about...

Yup= I'm not looking to over cam - just hit the good spot of best perf + in town ride-ability given the size of the motor. I do mostly in town riding, some cruising on weekends up the coast / hills, but not much freeway time at all. I don't do group riding- been there done that for a lot of years. I roll solo, 2up with the wifee, or occasionally with a couple of buds.



Was talking with Revolution Performance and they like using the T-Man 625 cam in their 107's - specs / price look decent on it and it likes a 10.5:1 CR.

 

[Brew]

Yeah, I"m liking the T-Man set up in my Harley. I put a hot kit in it which bumped it from a 96 CI to a 107 with 575 cams. Zero decked it to bump up the compression. It's good to go now.... Haven't heard many folks on here putting T-Man products on the dogs, if you decide to go that route let us know how you come out with it...:2thumbs:

 

[LA_Dog]

Yeah, I"m liking the T-Man set up in my Harley. I put a hot kit in it which bumped it from a 96 CI to a 107 with 575 cams. Zero decked it to bump up the compression. It's good to go now.... Haven't heard many folks on here putting T-Man products on the dogs, if you decide to go that route let us know how you come out with it...:2thumbs:

Cool -well ya I WILL be letting you know... I pulled the trigger and bought the T-Man 625 cam. oddly, going direct to T-Man was the cheapest option. $195 plus ship. Very nice folks over there- Spoke with Brian. Shipped it to me 2-day UPS


Does anyone see an issue with re-using lifters? they only have 4k miles on them, and a new set of Evo lifters is ridiculous. I'll get em if I have to, but, if they are ok to re-use I'd prefer it.

 

[FrankBDPS]

Back in the day when we built v8 engines for our street cars we always bought cams as a set with lifters from the same company.Valve train break in was always critical.Maybe it is different with bike engines.

 

[LA_Dog]

Back in the day when we built v8 engines for our street cars we always bought cams as a set with lifters from the same company.Valve train break in was always critical.Maybe it is different with bike engines.

From what limited amount I know there is still a lot of experience needed to assemble everything properly- especially with big-inch twins and high lift cams. Although - the lifters used in Evo's are pretty much automotive lifters.. I've actually seen automotive lifters used. $8 per lifter

 

[RCAdd1ct]

My SG had woods 408g cams in the 117. That was twin cam. Not sure what the equivalent evo would be.

I had 90 lb/ft of torque off idle. It was all in by 5700, but stayed above 100 lb/ft from 2-5k.

Going with a pack was easy pick a gear and roll as the torque was any rpm you were at.

Reason why I said to cc the heads is they did not do mine. They took the spec from the HD catalog. Well it was not correct so my static ratio was too high. The did all the tricks to get the compression down, but then the quench band did not work.

Pick your cams before the pistons are cut as the overlap can bleed or not bleed some pressure off. In my case it was not bleeding any off so I had a bunch of top quality parts that were not a great fit.

Lastly as you are doing this yourself. Take in all the info you can, but decide what you are going to do and then get as much of the stuff from one vendor as you can. It will save the. Finger pointing if there is an issue later.

 

[LA_Dog]

BTW the shop doing the work is also one of the few Cryogenic Treatment facilities in the Los Angeles area- They are cryo treating my Evo engine parts - heads, pistons, cylinders, bearings, cam, springs, crank, etc etc.

My buddy had his top end parts cryo treated there a few months back on his 2011 Road King / Twin Cam when they did his SE 103 upgrade- His bike dyno'd at 113hp and runs way cooler than it typically would for a TC. CRYO SCIENCE in case anyone is interested - they also do gun parts, automotive racing parts, pretty much anything metal that can benefit from cryo. Ask for Bruce or Brian tell 'em Kurt sent ya.

 

[francoblay1]

BTW the shop doing the work is also one of the few Cryogenic Treatment facilities in the Los Angeles area- They are cryo treating my Evo engine parts - heads, pistons, cylinders, bearings, cam, springs, crank, etc etc.

My buddy had his top end parts cryo treated there a few months back on his 2011 Road King / Twin Cam when they did his SE 103 upgrade- His bike dyno'd at 113hp and runs way cooler than it typically would for a TC. CRYO SCIENCE in case anyone is interested - they also do gun parts, automotive racing parts, pretty much anything metal that can benefit from cryo. Ask for Bruce or Brian tell 'em Kurt sent ya.

"Nunca te acostaras sin saber una cosa mas"

 

[LA_Dog]

"Nunca te acostaras sin saber una cosa mas"

True words brother :up:

 

[LA_Dog]

My SG had woods 408g cams in the 117. That was twin cam. Not sure what the equivalent evo would be.

I had 90 lb/ft of torque off idle. It was all in by 5700, but stayed above 100 lb/ft from 2-5k.

Going with a pack was easy pick a gear and roll as the torque was any rpm you were at.

Reason why I said to cc the heads is they did not do mine. They took the spec from the HD catalog. Well it was not correct so my static ratio was too high. The did all the tricks to get the compression down, but then the quench band did not work.

Pick your cams before the pistons are cut as the overlap can bleed or not bleed some pressure off. In my case it was not bleeding any off so I had a bunch of top quality parts that were not a great fit.

Lastly as you are doing this yourself. Take in all the info you can, but decide what you are going to do and then get as much of the stuff from one vendor as you can. It will save the. Finger pointing if there is an issue later.

Thanks bud- all good advice. I am having one very competent shop do the work, and will use Branch-Okeefe for making sure the top end comes together optimally (they do a lot of work with Branch). I've run my choices by the shop and only purchased based on their approval. The shop does not care if I buy the parts or if they buy the parts, as long as they have approval in what gets bought since they are doing the assembly / final. If I just went and bought whatever they'd probably tell me to stick it up my a$$ LOL.


Pretty good guys to work with, they really care about what they do and how the customer is going to feel about the build and end result. There's literally a looong wait to get a bike in with them as they only do a couple at a time. Real old school take-pride-in-your-work type of place.

 

[LA_Dog]

Just posting this for the sake of the thread / future ref by anyone-

Went with the T-Man TR-625 cam for Evo. will post a thread after this is all done on how it turned out.

Tman TR-625 cam
Designed for 80” to 124” motors. This is our maximum torque effort cam,compression ratio range 10.2 to 10.8. This cam will pull from 2000 rpm and still produce power at 6000 rpm.It is designed from our proven twin cam 625.
Estimated CCP: 201
Optimal Static CR: 10:6
Intake: Open/Close: 23/41 Lift:625 Duration:244 Centerline:99 TDC:212 LSA:100.5 Overlap:44
Exhaust:Open/Close: 45/21 Lift:625 Duration:246 Centerline:102 TDC:196

 

[LA_Dog]

I've continued this and a few other related threads into one location here:
http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/performance/55846-documenting-rebuild-my-pro-sport-107-motor-exhaust-etc-some-wtfs.html