Energy One

K-9 Shut Down mid-shift, Won't Start

Drayno

Member
Supporting Member
Hey guys, been awhile but got a bit of a problem on '07 K-9 with Wires Plus ECH replacement kit.

Got the dog out a few weeks ago in WI, cleaned up, new fluids and such. Rode a little but needed new battery, want to go lithium (like old WPS) so bought this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B9K2SLB/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Got battery in, charged it, bike started up with vengeance! I rode down to gas station (only run premium, no ethanol) to fill up and ride, glad I did cause she took 4 gals.

By this time bike as pretty warm, so leave stop light on highway: 1st pulls great at maybe 50%-60% throttle, quick shift to 2nd, still pulling, clutch in and try quick shift to 3rd (yes, its a long throw). Bike reacted like I missed the shift so I immediately pulled clutch in again, but bike lost all power, like it was choking out. Clutch in whole time, I tried twisting throttle a little to get it back, no dice, acted like it was getting gas but flooding, bogging very badly, sputtered out and died. Coasted to nearest parking lot.

Now bike won't even turn over. I have power when I turn ignition, I think oil light normally comes on with ignition key turn, but the blue "brights" light is on now. Sometimes it starts blinking faintly when I turn key and gradually gets brighter to full illumination after about 30 seconds. I disconnected the battery hoping it might reset something, but still no turn over.

There was so much happening I don't even know where to start. Just moved to this area so really not sure if any decent bike mechanics around. Had the scoot for 8 years now, a lot of time and effort getting it more reliable, spitting nails a this point. I read in some previous posts that there is a reset switch on a gray box? is that only for stock ECH set-ups?

I will most likely be making calls tomorrow to different bike shops, see if anyone has BD experience, but was hoping maybe you guys might have some suggestions to troubleshoot first?

Thanks,
Dray
 

shansel88

Member
Id want to check a few things at home before calling anyone -
1- connect jumper cable to NON running car and see if bike turns over?
2- Pull plugs and see if bike turns over - is motor seized??
3- Bad gas??? Maybe Diesel??

Id start there - as all are less then 30 min - my opinion
 

HMAN

Just like to ride
Supporting Member
You may have melted your headlight plug? It sounds like the low beam has blown, it defaults to high. The WP has a fuse. Check it as well.

Edit, check your ignition switch for loose wires....
 
Last edited:

pknowles

semi-retired...---... GURU C7Z06...---...
Lifetime Supporting Member
Supporting Member
I think I would pull the plugs for a quick look to see if they are wet? then Make sure the motor will roll over. It sounds like it happened after filling the almost empty tank? Pull the fuel line off the shutoff valve and make sure you have a good flow. Seems like leaving these tanks empty over winter accelerates the break down of the liners. If for some reason it is the wire + unit, you will need to find an alternative. These are just some suggestions that I would try and by no means am I a mechanic. Hope it helps.
 

Drayno

Member
Supporting Member
Thanks guys, at least that gives me some place to start. Worst part is I am not completely moved yet and all my tools are a few hours away, looks like I'll be making a trip tonight.

Can anyone explain the seized motor thing a little more? I hope to God that is not the case, but I'd like to be able to test and rule out. Not sure how pulling the plugs to see if it turns over would correlate... if it is an electronic issue the motor would not turn over regardless if no signal being sent to starter? Can I turn over motor manually to test if seized?

Thanks
 

pknowles

semi-retired...---... GURU C7Z06...---...
Lifetime Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Thanks guys, at least that gives me some place to start. Worst part is I am not completely moved yet and all my tools are a few hours away, looks like I'll be making a trip tonight.

Can anyone explain the seized motor thing a little more? I hope to God that is not the case, but I'd like to be able to test and rule out. Not sure how pulling the plugs to see if it turns over would correlate... if it is an electronic issue the motor would not turn over regardless if no signal being sent to starter? Can I turn over motor manually to test if seized?

Thanks
If you jack the rear wheel off the ground, pull the spark plugs, and , put it in 6th gear, you should be able to spend the motor over by rotating the rear tire. This will tell you if the motor is sized up. It doesn't sound likely unless you ran it without oil.
 
Don't panic, I would 1st hook up a set of jumper cables to battery as Sam said & see if will turn over/crank - I've had cpl bad new batteries over the yrs, especially new introduced technology(gel, etc & warned of lithium prblms). Lets get her turnin over 1st, then we'll progress elsewhere if needed.
 

Drayno

Member
Supporting Member
Thanks lonerider, needed to hear that. Tried the jumper cables and no luck. I turn key and everything comes on (tach, lights ect,) but when I hit run/start I get absolutely nothing: no click, no turn, just nothing.

Got plugs out, they are dry, look decent but will get new ones anyway. Put bike in sixth and rear tire spun, could hear pistons moving from spark plug holes, thankfully not seized.

Took off throttle-side circuit board, dirty in there but wire harness was connected, will clean it up. Checked ignition connections (assuming behind key guard) and they seem tight. Will get headlight off and see if there is short in there.

Any direction on where the WP+ fuse might be? I had installed and am regretting not doing myself. Both covers off, do not see any fuses yet.

Dray
 

pknowles

semi-retired...---... GURU C7Z06...---...
Lifetime Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Thanks lonerider, needed to hear that. Tried the jumper cables and no luck. I turn key and everything comes on (tach, lights ect,) but when I hit run/start I get absolutely nothing: no click, no turn, just nothing.

Got plugs out, they are dry, look decent but will get new ones anyway. Put bike in sixth and rear tire spun, could hear pistons moving from spark plug holes, thankfully not seized.

Took off throttle-side circuit board, dirty in there but wire harness was connected, will clean it up. Checked ignition connections (assuming behind key guard) and they seem tight. Will get headlight off and see if there is short in there.

Any direction on where the WP+ fuse might be? I had installed and am regretting not doing myself. Both covers off, do not see any fuses yet.

Dray
Its probably buried in the mess of wires. I installed the wire+ on my O7 efi bulldig and it wasnt fun but its still running. Start with the wires on the positive battery terminl and the fuse shouldnt be too far from the lug
 

Jersey Big Mike

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
You might have lost the starter relay. You can bypass it to test by using a wire to apply power to starter solenoid - green wire on starter I believe with spade connector. Use a wire and bump it to 12v positive. - can use the spot on starter that is directly connected to battery

Had a couple times I had to do this with my other bike to get home!
 
Thanks lonerider, needed to hear that. Tried the jumper cables and no luck. I turn key and everything comes on (tach, lights ect,) but when I hit run/start I get absolutely nothing: no click, no turn, just nothing.
Are you still running the stock(or adjustable) Thunderheart ignition? I know nothing bout
Got plugs out, they are dry, look decent but will get new ones anyway. Put bike in sixth and rear tire spun, could hear pistons moving from spark plug holes, thankfully not seized.

Took off throttle-side circuit board, dirty in there but wire harness was connected, will clean it up. Checked ignition connections (assuming behind key guard) and they seem tight. Will get headlight off and see if there is short in there.

Any direction on where the WP+ fuse might be? I had installed and am regretting not doing myself. Both covers off, do not see any fuses yet.

Dray
Are you running the Thunderheart Ignition? If so after pressing the 'run button' look to see if red light on side of it is lit. Ifso, look at jumpin starter solenoid(I hav a 'slam button'). If not possibly defective 'run button'. Others, am I thinkin right?
 

Drayno

Member
Supporting Member
Hmm, no light on Thunderjet, I see the red LED next to settings knob, it does not light up when key turned. Still looking for fuse!
 

Drayno

Member
Supporting Member
Thunderheart I meant, no light on thunderheart, I put thunderjet on the carb...
 
I would check 'run' button, possibly jump it to see if starter works & red light on on ignition module. If u hav a diagram of WP wiring u could check 'run' button wire for fire at WP.
 

Drayno

Member
Supporting Member
Soooo, I do not appear to have the fuse, I only have this gray box with a button on the bottom. Is that bad for WP?

I also found the red "run" wire coming from right side control. The insulation was worn through, but I am not sure if wire was broken on the inside. I spliced and soldered back together with no luck. I could see wire so I have to assume it was possible that the wire shorted out on something, what are the possible victims? Thunderheart? Control board? Anyway to test those?

At the risk of sounding foolish, to test starter I remove positive boot on big ass wire and tap terminal with direct current from battery positive?


20180607_192738.jpg
 
You might have lost the starter relay. You can bypass it to test by using a wire to apply power to starter solenoid - green wire on starter I believe with spade connector. Use a wire and bump it to 12v positive. - can use the spot on starter that is directly connected to battery

Had a couple times I had to do this with my other bike to get home!
No, on jumpin starter. Follow Big Mike's instructions in above message/reply.
 

HMAN

Just like to ride
Supporting Member
"Soooo, I do not appear to have the fuse, I only have this gray box with a button on the bottom. Is that bad for WP? "

Not necessarily, that's the circuit breaker. Make sure the button has been pushed in and reset.
 

Drayno

Member
Supporting Member
Well, jumped starter and it turned over. Weird thing is when it turned over the speedo went blank and headlight stopped working in position 3 of key ignition. If I turn key to position 2 the speedo comes on but not headlight. I disconnected battery, reconnected and then everything worked again in both positions.

I still have not been able to get Thunderheart to light up, is there a way to bench test that? Where is starter relay located?

Is there a way to test right side controls board? What would be a good cleaner to spray in the control board housing and clean it out?

I know my key tumbler is lose at mounting, but it still turns everything on. Does anyone have recommendation for aftermarket key FOB that I could install to eliminate the tumbler all together?

Thanks,
Dray
 
Top