2004 bigdog ridgeback has no spark

The rider 1116

New Member
I have a 2004 bigdog ridgeback with a 107 and i have no spark cranks over with no problem at all i replaced the spark plugs wires and the module that the plugs go into
 

Dispatch

Active Member
I have a 2004 bigdog ridgeback with a 107 and i have no spark cranks over with no problem at all i replaced the spark plugs wires and the module that the plugs go into

Join the club.

I'll tell you what the cause of mine was when I get it back from the shop hopefully next week...
 

Mikeinjersey

Well-Known Member
I have a 2004 bigdog ridgeback with a 107 and i have no spark cranks over with no problem at all i replaced the spark plugs wires and the module that the plugs go into
Welcome from NJ
This WD is visually poor but if you look at the lower rt side you can see what components are involved. Are you sure its spark and not fuel? Start by checking all your connectors and obvious wire breaks. There are other checks and things to look for as well like power to your ignition module and cam sensor signal.
Sorry posted the incorrect WD this one includes the Ridgeback
 

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Sven

Well-Known Member
I change this
The beauty of this module [coil] is when you can mount the coil 4 ways. Wire wise this where you do not need to twist the coil wires, but rather swap the two wires off their posts. So wire wise, there are usually 3:
1. Wire from the key switch. With key on, the (+) wire has to charge up the coil first.
2. The other side is hooked up to the cam sensor/set of points.
3. The optional tach wire is added to the (+) side of the module.


 

Mikeinjersey

Well-Known Member
The beauty of this module [coil] is when you can mount the coil 4 ways. Wire wise this where you do not need to twist the coil wires, but rather swap the two wires off their posts. So wire wise, there are usually 3:
1. Wire from the key switch. With key on, the (+) wire has to charge up the coil first.
2. The other side is hooked up to the cam sensor/set of points.
3. The optional tach wire is added to the (+) side of the module.


Hi Sven please explain how you expect this information to help The Rider 116 fix his no spark issue. In my opinion it would only confuse the crap out of him. If you are joking around I don't get it.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Mike,
Point being, the wire down to the module is hot off the key. So he'd first run a test light to the coil side that shows who is hot from the key switch. If say the OP did not shoot the original photo and took a guess on the rewiring on the coil, then it's 180 out on the firing order where it wouldn't start, or letting you know if you hear it backfire, you swap around the wires. Crossing over the plug wires does the same thing... if... you wired it 180 out of sequence.

Coil could care less who fires first and at what position the coil is mounted. So if say the key wire down to the coil is hot, the new module is in question as in no spark. That's all he changed.
 
Ignition module should have a red light, and blink when cranking. If not, no spark. Do you have an original ECM, or have you upgraded? Crank sensor controls the ignition module, (not the coil directly). I believe that both plugs fire at the same time, so you can't get the plug wires on backwards. Check ALL grounds! EVERYTHING goes through the ECM!
 

Mikeinjersey

Well-Known Member
Mike,
Point being, the wire down to the module is hot off the key. So he'd first run a test light to the coil side that shows who is hot from the key switch. If say the OP did not shoot the original photo and took a guess on the rewiring on the coil, then it's 180 out on the firing order where it wouldn't start, or letting you know if you hear it backfire, you swap around the wires. Crossing over the plug wires does the same thing... if... you wired it 180 out of sequence.

Coil could care less who fires first and at what position the coil is mounted. So if say the key wire down to the coil is hot, the new module is in question as in no spark. That's all he changed.
Hi Sven, I attached the correct WD for the 04 Ridgeback. According to this the Ignition module is powered by the EHC, gets its signal from the CamSensor which triggers the Duel fire coil. Both cylinders fire at the same time. The coil does need to be wired correctly though. If I'm wrong please correct me.
 

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Sven

Well-Known Member
Mike,
At the center hole, note the cam notch at 12 o'clock. Yes, coil fires really once out of a coil that is more or less wired as one spark.
What I think you are missing is the timing of each cylinder having a spark of their own. To me, the top C curve is longer than the lower C curve. So if you swapped plug wires, it would backfire more or less. That's why you swap the key/(+) wires so the spark plugs are not twisted over each other.

Schematic wise, tach is hot to coil, so both key and tach are on the one side of the coil, cam sensor wire is on the other lug. So say you could wire the tack to the cam sensor side and the coil remains hot and waiting, whereas you can't trigger the coil being hot at both sides of the lugs = No spark.

 

Mikeinjersey

Well-Known Member
Mike,
At the center hole, note the cam notch at 12 o'clock. Yes, coil fires really once out of a coil that is more or less wired as one spark.
What I think you are missing is the timing of each cylinder having a spark of their own. To me, the top C curve is longer than the lower C curve. So if you swapped plug wires, it would backfire more or less. That's why you swap the key/(+) wires so the spark plugs are not twisted over each other.

Schematic wise, tach is hot to coil, so both key and tach are on the one side of the coil, cam sensor wire is on the other lug. So say you could wire the tack to the cam sensor side and the coil remains hot and waiting, whereas you can't trigger the coil being hot at both sides of the lugs = No spark.

OK Sven, I'm convinced you are reading a different thread and responding on this one. Or you are in Torment Mode and baiting me into a Sven Spiral. I will bite one more time even though it seems Rider1116 is long gone. Whatever point you were trying to make with Top C, Lower C and the rest of it is lost on me. You may be speaking in some technical jargon I am ignorant of. If that's the case make your point in laymen terms so I can take you seriously or we can have a good laugh and move on to the next problem.
Ehc function = power to Coil and Ignition module
Ign module function = power to cam sensor and relays cam signal to coil at proper time ( collapsing field and causing spark)
also sends cam signal to the tachometer through the EHC.
** Ign module also provides ground back to EHC
Cam sensor function = signals Ignition module when to fire the duel fire coil causing both plugs to fire.
Rider 1116, if you ever read these posts comment back so we can direct you properly to troubleshoot your issue
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Mike, I did spiral off. The OP explained the first part and I flat out missed it as usual. Now it sounds like a cam sensor. I'll also assume the OP would notice the annunciator would announce a shit load of lights going on for a bad EHC? So the assumption is normal black box lighting, OP?

Whatever point you were trying to make with Top C, Lower C and the rest of it is lost on me... I wish I had a cup, but say both are evenly spaced so it's a V8 like engine we are talking, and we use an old distributor with a set of points. The cup should be even as is a set of points rubbing that cam; is about to open the same time for spark to occur those 8 times, and at those same degrees. So we chopped off 6 cylinders. I have to assume the cup cuts are even the more you think about it.

If that's the case make your point in laymen terms so I can take you seriously or we can have a good laugh and move on to the next problem... I'll assume you know the 4-strokes. Cup wise, say those window cutouts equal 180 degrees at the leading edge of the window, meaning, the one open side is the leading edge, the closing side is the trailing edge. The window gap has both cylinders at their 2nd strokes. The one stroke is on compression and is about to spark and fire off. On the other cylinder, it's on the exhaust stroke with the same spark of that one coil collapsing ALL to ground.

Comp-EX = Fires off cylinder.
Intake-Power = Fires off what is coming in from the carb/injector and fires out of the air cleaner... we swap plug leads. Cup run'ith over on the layman side any? Putt-Putt vs. Pop-Pop?

You vs. Me:

Ehc function = power to Coil and Ignition module... Agreed.

Ign module function = power to cam sensor and relays cam signal to coil at proper time ( collapsing field and causing spark)
also sends cam signal to the tachometer through the EHC
... No. There is no power to cam sensor. Schematic shows the CS has 3 wires; ground is black, yellow to coil, red to ign-mod. Laymen term remember, ever see those windup flashlights? Crank faster the light glows brighter? Who calls the tach rpm? The cup window's speed across the magnet making AC. The harder the pulse up the wire, the faster the rpm. Low glow, magnetically flashlight speaking, slow is the rpm signal. The [open] cup window calls the collapse. Cup is making [AC] magnetism as it moves at that air gap between the magnets. Once it hits that open gap, the module lost a magnetic field holding a gate open, i.e., ON; I'll assume. No magnetic field = OFF in processing speak of a black box. Agree on the tach signal and when to spark?

** Ign module also provides ground back to EHC... Yes and no with an explanation. A black box needs 4 parts and it becomes more or less a processor. Man is handcuffed to ohm's law so man says when this occurs, do this. That one part is a 555 timer or an integrated chip (IC). The handcuff says, to make this chip operable, it has to have 12v and a ground. The chip needs 12v in and the chip converts to a processing mode being 5v to operate the processor. So any black box will need to run the chip with 12v and a ground. You are handcuffed to that. You see epoxy filling that little aluminum tray, it's going to need 12v to operate the 555 timer.

Cam sensor function = signals Ignition module when to fire the duel fire coil causing both plugs to fire.
We should be down to this point and understand the cam/crank sensor is an AC pulse maker up the one wire, and the other pulse goes to ground on a 360 sweep. North-South, right? The window gap calls the spark. If we look at a single coil, there are two terminals on the one coil. Dual coil still uses 2 wire terminals. If you look at both a single and dual, they both spark once. It's just that the one fires on the exhaust, also known as a 'wasted spark'.

So what you should come away with is:
You can mount the coil in any direction and be timed in wire swap wise, not spark plug swap wise. Cam/crank sensor makes AC to tell the processor how fast the engine is spinning via how much push of AC went up the wire and this is called a value the processor can convert into binary, where the processor only works as an ON-OFF switching device, and can detect when the pulse can make AC or not = NO SPARK at CS, OP?.

For the OP: Set multimeter to 20v DC and prong both black and yellow wire. Disconnect the cam sensor from the connectors, crank engine and how much DC is showing for output?

Make sense in 4-strokes or less?
 

Mr. Wright

Knows some things
Supporting Member
For real guys? Why don't you make it a bit more complicated for him. The ignition system on these bikes is simple.
Turn the key on, is there a red light on the ignition module?
Yes,
from their test your cam sensor.
No,
Check and see if you got power going into the module. If there is, see if the ground wire is broke at the plug.
 

Mikeinjersey

Well-Known Member
Sven, Mr Wright is correct, our discussion is way too much to be of help to Rider 1116. After reading your last post I had a double whisky. I think we ended up on the same page as far as the system works with the exception of my thinking the cam sensor was powered by the Ignition Mod. The third wire to the sensor made me think that.
All in all it was an interesting discussion and if Rider 1116 comes back we can revisit all this in a simple manner :D
 
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