Welcome to Our Community

Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.

Sign Up

Upper motor mount torque- Hot or cold?

Discussion in 'Help Wanted' started by Kobi, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. Kobi

    Kobi Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Messages:
    125
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Josephville MO
    My Bike(s):
    2008 Ridgeback
    First Name:
    Kurt
    This just may be over thinking things too much, Should the upper mount be torqued when the engine is hot or cold? I just loosened my coil cover/ upper motor mount to install head bolt covers and was thinking about the best time to torque it all down. Seems the engine as it gets hot will become taller and want to push the frame open. I torqued it all up cold, took a ride and loosened the upper mount to frame bolt and the mount moved quite a bit when loosened. I checked the shop manual and it had no notes about being hot or cold. What are your thoughts? 08 Ridgeback.. Thanks guys!!
     
    Sven and chubs like this.
  2. pauldeepsea

    pauldeepsea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    4,638
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    California
    My Bike(s):
    2004 Pitbull/ridgeback , 2006 big bear sled 300
    First Name:
    Paul
    Cold
     
    chubs likes this.
  3. pauldeepsea

    pauldeepsea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    4,638
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    California
    My Bike(s):
    2004 Pitbull/ridgeback , 2006 big bear sled 300
    First Name:
    Paul
    Sorry but never torque hot it softens the metal and will snap the bolt
     
    PROFLYER, chubs and BWG56 like this.
  4. Th3InfamousI

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2009
    Messages:
    10,781
    Likes Received:
    15,955
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Texas
    My Bike(s):
    04 Ridgeback & 07 K9
    First Name:
    Eric
    80lbs and red loctite ...don't forget the Red! For the upper mounting bolt.

    35lbs and Blue for the coil mounting bolts.

    Sent from my 831C using Tapatalk
     
    chubs and BWG56 like this.
  5. Ghost Rider

    Ghost Rider Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Austin
    My Bike(s):
    '09 K-9
    First Name:
    Jon
    1463804934095.jpg
    How unusual is it for these to break, specifically over the rear cylinder? Camel toe and front mount are sound, but I felt some extra vibration and noticed the break. No connection to the rear cylinder head until I put the new one on next week (dont mind being rid of the 117 etching)..I did get the top half built by Jonn Sachs so my 117 is putting out close to 130 hp (new clutch and brocken exhaust mount also going in). I squeeze every bit of torque and pretty much ride with the throttle pegged, so I pretty well expect these "chain-links" to break. But I'd still like to humbly ask the experienced gallery for their insight and any potential upgrades. This is my ratt and I get my moneys worth out of it....I take burning rubber over my soul any day.

    Ghost Rider 32695[/ATTACH]broken ignition cover at rear cylinder head
     
    #5 Ghost Rider, May 21, 2016
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
    chubs likes this.
  6. kickstart

    kickstart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2007
    Messages:
    3,218
    Likes Received:
    1,221
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    TN
    My Bike(s):
    52 Pan,05 Bulldog, 07 K9
    First Name:
    Pat
    Jon,
    Just a guess but it may be that the cover was not flush with the heads when the top mount was torqued and pulled down when the bolts to the heads were torqued.
     
    BWG56, chubs and pauldeepsea like this.
  7. pauldeepsea

    pauldeepsea Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2008
    Messages:
    4,638
    Likes Received:
    5,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    California
    My Bike(s):
    2004 Pitbull/ridgeback , 2006 big bear sled 300
    First Name:
    Paul
    Those shouldn't break. Check the torque on the mounting bolts
     
    chubs likes this.
  8. Brew

    Brew Troop Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,810
    Likes Received:
    2,502
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Washington State
    My Bike(s):
    08 Mastiff / 09 Softail Deluxe
    First Name:
    Rob
    When I bought my second scoot, mine was broke also. I found the breaking torque to be way over what the book calls for on all bolts.
     
    chubs likes this.
  9. Ghost Rider

    Ghost Rider Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Austin
    My Bike(s):
    '09 K-9
    First Name:
    Jon
    Good copy, fellas. I'll take this into consideration with the next try. Seemed fluke this bracket wasn't really designed to manage much torque. I thought some geometric binding may have been a factor. Now worries; better a broken weak link in the chain turn a strong one.


    I'm about to be researching clutch upgrades next...
     
    chubs likes this.
  10. Sven

    Sven Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2012
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    834
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My Bike(s):
    building one
    As you should. Now, reverse the engineering and read between the lines if I've got book in hand.

    Cold: I can't warm the engine I torque the head bolts I replace a blown head gasket. Chapter: Top End.
    Cold: I have engine in frame and first tighten all engine bolts. Chapter: Torque specs.
    Cold: I now see the assembly line has to torque every last part from the ground up before it's lit up.
    Cold: I will now torque all bolts to room temp. That's on page...
     
    francoblay1 likes this.
  11. Sven

    Sven Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2012
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    834
    Trophy Points:
    113
    My Bike(s):
    building one
    I can run a combination of bolt tightening sequences:
    1. Of course this is static in setting, so I room temp my static torque settings, or let it sit out in the sun and cook some heat in the frame you go boil an egg on the tank kind of ready to torque now.
    2. Where do I push my static so I have less shim at my head steady bolt?
    3. I can loosen the engine and trans, push that little bit of mm over to one side is narrow down the gap with less washer thicknesses or use none as the steady kisses the frame, etc.
    4. I cannot first tighten the head steady and pull the engine up to one side.
    5. I already moved the gap narrower. I now heatwave torque or room temp torque the engine points first.
    6. The engine is square to the frame. I have a gap at the head steady to frame = Static Gap.
    7. I shim shit out of it, as it has no washers dropping out of that gap they sit in; without a bolt thru it.
    8. That's a hand push of an interference fit as I want. No hammer was used in this post.
    9. And this should keep the vibe from occurring, or if the engine rocks on the frame all in the static no bolts?
    10. Pack your 100% cotton briefs with cotton balls. This will help keep the vibration down from traveling up to your wrists and putting those to sleep.
     
    francoblay1 and HMAN like this.
  12. JR03CHOPPER

    JR03CHOPPER Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    2,130
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    My Bike(s):
    2003 Big Dog Chopper, 2007 Big Dog K9
    First Name:
    JR
    He is really throwing himself into it considering the last time he was on the forum was 5/2016!
     
    dentdude36 and francoblay1 like this.
  13. Hirter6Pack

    Hirter6Pack Not Quite A Guru
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2015
    Messages:
    2,349
    Likes Received:
    5,085
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Saint Joseph Mo
    My Bike(s):
    2004 Mastiff
    First Name:
    Rick
    Wait it might work. Dent pulled one out yesterday.
     
    dentdude36 likes this.
  14. JR03CHOPPER

    JR03CHOPPER Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2011
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    2,130
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    My Bike(s):
    2003 Big Dog Chopper, 2007 Big Dog K9
    First Name:
    JR
    Gotcha. Hope his research helps you if he is still around.
     

Share This Page