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Rebuild or Replace

Discussion in 'Transmission / Drive' started by Steve2134, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Steve2134

    Steve2134 Member
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    After reading up on all the clutch experience posted here I decided to take the clutch apart on my 07 Mastiff to see why I’m dealing with the dragging at stop, slipping in 3rd, great when it’s cold but not when it’s hot issues. I found I have a 12-Disk clutch that at first look seemed pretty clean. Sticky clutch pack, mild wear on the outer hub-no deep grooves. Took apart everything and found the carrier bearing was clunky. It’s an open,double row, angular 3207J bearing made by INA. This is the same company that makes FAG Bearings-cheap. I know if this bearing is hanging up it could be causing the the dragging I’m feeling with the clutch pulled in. I ordered an SKF 3207 A/C3 bearing as a replacement. I also[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] contacted Bandit Machine Works since they have a replacement that some here seem to love. Their replacement is $599 or I could reuse my stock hub and spend $395 or just buy a new billet carrier for $140. I have other pieces that I would rather spend money on but I don’t want to keep dealing with clutch issues. Everything except that bearing looked good. I’m thinking about replacing the carrier bearing, hardened nut, cleaning everything up, and putting it back together. What do you guys think? [​IMG]


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  2. Th3InfamousI

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    Replace the carrier you have it out.

    The stock clutch is fine. Give Energy One a call they are a forum sponsor and made our clutch disc.

    I'm not home so don't have my notes but I'd be willing to bet your clutch stack height is too short and why you got issues. The 12 plate system was later changed to 9 because the problem with the 12 is the steels are too thin and actually wear out. Ask energy one they will confirm the same.

    You can keep the 12 plate you might just need to go with one thicker steel to bring your clutch height back to usable range.

    Anyways contact energy one they are great people and will let you buy just one or two steels instead of a whole setup.

    I went through this probably about 15k miles ago been good ever sense

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  3. Th3InfamousI

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    Also just noticed you have the stock pressure plate which is just aluminum and will cause you issues, I bet you take that plate out youll see its worn and not smooth.

    Baker later came out with a hardened one.

    Be honest here between the carrier, bearing, and plate you might not end up too far from the bandit.


    And Steve, this part of my post doesn't pertain to you it's for other members.....hey guys guess it looks like I'm back!!! Haha. My memory still works, doctors and neurologist don't understand why and are amazed at my progress too

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  4. Steve2134

    Steve2134 Member
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    Glad to hear your getting better! I know a lot of people on this forum were worried. I can see that all this deep thinking sorting out BDM issues must be therapeutic! I get that the pressure plate and the clutch pack dimensions would be a problem but why the carrier? I saw some stories of guys having them break but mine looks new (for now). Bandit mentioned their assembly adds a couple disks to the clutch stack too. I would love to just replace a couple weak parts and fix this but I’m thinking more and more it just won’t work without going with a whole different clutch. Thanks for helping me with this...


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  5. BWG56

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    The broken carriers came from the clutch hub nut coming loose and then the carrier would hit the bolt heads holding the rear primary plate to the tranny and start to chew it up, or the bolts came loose that hold the carrier to the ring gear. I don't see a reason to spend all that coin for a new one if you don't have to.
     
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  6. Th3InfamousI

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    Says the guy with an updated carrier..lol

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  7. BWG56

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    Mine wasn't broke, the bearing hub was not hardened and the bearing had an indent, but the carrier plate is still good. Baker wasn't selling just the bearing hub at that time.
     
  8. Th3InfamousI

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    It will work but just curious was there engine work done previously? Lots of guys who did compression work and cam over 600 needed the bandit cause stock was slipping.

    You measure the stack height with just the fibers and steel, not the pressure plate.

    Overall like I said call energy one they'll walk you through the measurement process and help us out.

    Like Ker said you could leave the carrier, lots have gotten miles just make sure you do red loctite and 150 ft/lbs on that clutch hub nut. There's a new hardened one from baker too. Noticing that Baker hardened a lot of parts after the fact? I would however replace that pressure plate because it wears out and will wear the friction next do it quickly which will always give you issues.

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    #8 Th3InfamousI, Jan 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  9. liferider

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    Even from his new recovery bed, Eric comes through!!!! He could go with an open primary and go with a lock up clutch
     
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  10. Steve2134

    Steve2134 Member
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    No cam work that I know of and Hot Licks doesn’t count . I’m thinking new carrier bearing and buy a hardened pressure plate plus new hardened nut/washer. I’ll call energy one tomorrow to get the info on the plate stack. I’m curious about the 150# torque? The service manual shows the motor sprocket at 150 with the clutch hub nut at 80#. I saw Marky Marks YouTube video and I think he mentioned something similar.


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  11. Steve2134

    Steve2134 Member
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    Thanks for the link. I’m still learning how to mine through all the conversations here over the last 10 years
     
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  12. Steve2134

    Steve2134 Member
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    I measured my clutch pack and saw that it has
    Steel .058” x 10
    Steel .079” x 1
    Backer Plate .120” x 1
    Total overall with friction plates measures 1.950”
    Thanks for the tip on Energyone. I talked to Kent who said the spec for this pack should measure 1.970”-1.980” he said to swap a .058 with a new .079 to bring pack to minimum build height. Great guy-he got my address and put a .079 in the mail for FREE!
    He also said Baker sells a heavy duty Diaphragm Spring that measures .092” thick and .0315” to the arc.
    He said a high RPM slip (3rd gear) is tension related and may need new spring. Low RPM slip is wear related.
    Mine measures .073” and .300” to the arc so I have the lighter spring. Curtis at Wildsteedworx said this is a spring that Baker uses in another clutch that does fit but may be hard on the hand to hold in. I ordered all the other gaskets, rod, pressure plate but I’m hesitant to make that clutch too stiff to hold. I finally feel like this repair is coming together though
     
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  13. Th3InfamousI

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    Well as I said I thought you were short! Glad to hear you got it figured out it looks like.

    I don't know if Kent told you but the thicker steel should be installed closest to back of inner primary. That's what they told me. They had testing to back it up.

    Good luck!
     
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  14. Th3InfamousI

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    Also I'm with Curtis don't go with any update that makes the pull harder I don't think it's necessary.

    The hardened pressure plate though is pretty important. Notice in my pics the wear rings on the non hardened pressure plate which also dug into the friction plate too
     

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  15. Steve2134

    Steve2134 Member
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    Glad you said that. I wasn’t sure if it mattered. So I should install .120” backer, .079”, .079” then the .058” to keep all the thicker steels together? Of course I’m installing friction disks between but that’s what your saying right?
     
  16. Th3InfamousI

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    Correct thicker steels first. And yep of course friction in between!

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  17. Steve2134

    Steve2134 Member
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    Wow! I looked closer at mine and I’ve got some wear. Not as much but that may have been because of my buildout being too short
     
  18. Th3InfamousI

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    No the wear in the plate is because it's soft aluminum. That's why baker later hardened it. I would not trust an aluminum pressure plate you'll always be wearing it and the fiber and be loosing the stack height. You see the spec on the stack height not much wiggle room

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