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Ok need advise from you pros on no spark....

Discussion in 'EFI Topics' started by phatchopper300, Jul 8, 2015.

  1. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    The cps was tested and could only verify a few volts figured it was the least expensive to replace. Now feel like Im chasing a ghost. I rode bike 15 miles ran fine and parked it in garage and have not been able to start it last 3 weeks. Taken off both side covers and inspected all wires didn't find any issues. I have put 1500 miles since the RIP kit was installed. Bike will crank strong but will not turn over. How can you tell Ecm is bad. I still get DT's in protune2. Would it show no Ecm present if bad. Also not sure where ignition mod is I don't see any lights. I see ecm and connectors for all wiring into RIP kit.
     
    #21 phatchopper300, Jul 19, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
  2. Coolbreezin

    Coolbreezin Active Member

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    "Bike will crank strong but will not turn over." Do you mean the engine turns over but wont start?
     
  3. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Sorry cool engine will turn over but not start
     
  4. Jwooky

    Jwooky Well-Known Member

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    There is not an ignition module on a EFI bike. The VFI module controls it all.

    When its not starting, do you have spark? Does the fuel pump prime after key on?
     
  5. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Thanks jwooky for clearing that up on vfi. So I asume the ECM controls all of these functions also. I get no spark or no spray in carb. I do hear the pump prime in fuel tank. I did replace crank position sensor still the same results bike not starting.
     
  6. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Is there any way to test ECM I hook it up to ProTune I have 5 DT codes which are all sensor codes I tried to clear the history and they will not be deleted. I check all of the grounds all are secure i remove both side covers and went through all wiring for loose or broken wires none were found. Have you got any suggestions on what to check my next move is to replace the ECM. I know the ECM doesn't usually go but to me it seems like it's got to be something simple. bike ran great put it in garage turned it off two days later went to start it then the same way for the last 3 weeks no spark no fuel. Battery tested good13.1 when trying to start bike only drops to 12.8
     
  7. Jwooky

    Jwooky Well-Known Member

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    Mine went bad and so did Tom's (groundpounder). Not sure mine wasn't issues from previous owners WP install.

    Are your faults active or historic? Sounds like they are active, if they will not clear.

    Do you know how to use protune to test outputs? You can command it to fire the plugs and injectors. You have to be in advanced user level though.

    Worst case, you can have the module tested by S&S.
     
    phatchopper300 likes this.
  8. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    :(Yes DT'S will not clear. I know a little with protune2. If my ECM is locked will ProTune let me go to advanced settings. And if it does and I could go into advanced settings and command the EMC to fire does that show that the EMC is faulty.
    PS I have a good working EMC UNLOCKED ON THE WAY. I guess that will eliminate the EMC.
     
  9. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Ok follow up hooked up to ProTune went into output settings I did get reaction from all except tack on 2000 rpm. Does this mean that my ECM is good or does it mean it's faulty. I did hear the pump but I did not get any spray in the carburetor when I get the injector test
     
  10. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    I heard the fuel pump 5 seconds but did not get anything else when I did the front or rear ignition.
     
  11. Jwooky

    Jwooky Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear, when you activate the front or rear ignition or injectors using the output test you did not get spark or fuel?

    Yes you can use these functions with a locked module. " locked" simply means you cannot alter the fuel maps +/- 20% off the base map.
     
  12. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Yes that's correct no spark or no fuel in carb. I hear the fuel pump charge up but no spray in carb. I guess that means what? Bad ECM? OR other issue.
    Thank for your guidance.
     
  13. Jwooky

    Jwooky Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a wiring schematic? If not let me know, ill send you one.

    The ground signal for those sensors is a common circuit. It is an input to the VFI at pin 26. What I would do it trace that circuit(s) and verify their integrity. I would check resistance/continuity between the module and the sensors.
     
  14. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Okay I'm going to retrace I did get spark on the front cylinder and a rear cylinder but I still did not get any fuel spray in the carburetor. Yes I do have a wiring schematic but my question is I now have the RIP kit and I suppose that will change on which pins are ground to check for continuity and integrity its funny when I check the spark plugs the old way by grounding them I get nothing but when I test them through ProTune to make a command for them they work
     
  15. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    I read on another post about somebody having the same issue wasn't getting fuel how would I be able to test I believe he replaced the regulator
     
  16. Jwooky

    Jwooky Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, but old fashioned way you mean, by cranking the motor with plugs out head against the head? assuming your ground them, that should work too.

    With the exception of the power and ignition all of the circuits to the VFI should be the same.

    Also, pin 31 should have constant power. Verify that is the case. With the WP this was not maintained
     
  17. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Yes by doing the old fashion way I could not get spark I can get spark now through ProTune I still feel like its something to do with the fuel obviously not spring in carburetor and by you saying VFI that's the box next to the ECM with about 60 wires going into it
     
  18. Jwooky

    Jwooky Well-Known Member

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    Best way to check for fuel would be to put a fuel pressure gage on the schrader valve which is right next to where the fuel lines exits the tank. When you turn the key on, and it primes you should set ~60psi.

    A bad way to check if you don't have a gage is pull the fuel line, put in a bucket and see if fuel gushes out when it primes.
     
  19. Jwooky

    Jwooky Well-Known Member

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    Dont think so, Not on mine there isn't at least.
     
  20. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Ok will check pressure this evening on the fuel. (I think they have a check valve that is depressed when you shove the connection together.) ???????? Not sure what this means
     

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