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Ok need advise from you pros on no spark....

Discussion in 'EFI Topics' started by phatchopper300, Jul 8, 2015.

  1. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Ok little history. 2009 efi k9 15450 miles RIP Kit and Dakota speedo. Have had bike 4 mo. Bike has been great lots of power no issues. Ok now just the other night rode home still no issues it was about 3 miles round trip. Parked bike in garage plugged in tender (always use) and left. Now this is what's got me stumped. Next day want to ride with wife get ready get on bike turn key hit run button hear fuel pump turn on hit start and bike will not turn over like its out of fuel....was not. I did check spark plugs and no spark at all. ( did old spark plug test). Did some research on hear and found maybe the crank position sensor my be faulty. I have a new one on the way in the next week. Problem 2 checked fuel spray in throttle body and nothing when trying to start engine. Could there be another part other than the crank position sensor that can affect both of these issues. Never had any issues in starting bike would always start at a push of the button. Asking for any advise.....
    Thanks Mike
     
  2. BigDogBro1

    BigDogBro1 Made in the USA

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    I'm not sure how the RIP unit now controls the system but on a stock bike:

    The one power relay powers the fuel pump so if the pump is running the coil should be powered. When you press the RUN button you should hear the pump charge and then shut off after a few seconds. During the time the pump is running you should have 12v power at the coil, O2 heaters and one side of the injectors as well.

    Check the wiring diagram for starters.
     
    #2 BigDogBro1, Jul 8, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2015
  3. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Thanks for the reply BigDogbro1 I will look into that
     
  4. Sven

    Sven Well-Known Member

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    Make an AC bulb checker. In other words, the wires coming out of the crank sensor makes AC. The faster the spin, the more voltage. So if it pulses [between wires] turns yellow, bulb resistance is high picking a test bulb. If it blows the filament and runs bright before it does, both show crank sensor output and that bulb had too low a resistance and blew. Possible spark loss could time with the injector not firing?
     
  5. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Thank seven will check that out
     
  6. Iman

    Iman Well-Known Member

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    Mine had the same problem. Got a new crank sensor and was good to go
     
  7. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Thanks Inman let's hope so..... I got a little freaked out when I didn't see fuel spray in the carburetor but I knew it had to be something simple I will update when my crank sensor comes in
     
  8. Sven

    Sven Well-Known Member

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    I see the crank sensor plugged into an 'ign module.' Ign means no spark. Crank sensor means no spark. That's why you try the current out by cranking or use the spec sheet of the ohm resistance of the sensor. Heat eats the numbers so if it's out of spec?

    Now you have the c/s changed and still no spark = Ign mod?
     
  9. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Seven are you saying poss new ign maybe needed if cs doesn't do the trick.
    Inman did you gave just no spark or did you not have no spark or no fuel and cs solved the issue.
     
  10. Sven

    Sven Well-Known Member

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    Yes, phat. There are BD wire harness images on line. I dragged and dropped a 2007 wire plus diagram onto my desktop to follow along. Here I assume some sort of spark box? So I see a crank sensor to spark box to... And yes, first check is crank sensor, then spark box, then follow the wire up to the next "jobber" and there is the ignition system to diagnose in a step by step, not step buy step... especially 'no return' electrical {smoke]

    That's why the suggestion is the quick and dirty trick of testing a hall effect for at least a broken wire in the jobber. Think, break or melt. Wire in is wire out is one continuous wire. So it either melts at some weak spot at the coating of the copper wire windings around the core; thus I assume would bring the resistance out of spec. Broken wire is no [flicker of the test bulb] ohm meter swing at the needle to infinity > is this other way to check. Then, the ohm resistance measurement and that spec to see how close it being in spec or broke out of spec by 0.00000000001 is still out of spec.

    See how many moves to make before you threw money at the wrong part if not, a simple loose wire or corrosion between pins? Just saying.
     
  11. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    thanks for post seven. This weekend I will spend some time and thoroughly go thru each step to track down problem.
     
  12. Coolbreezin

    Coolbreezin Active Member

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    My friend says my loss of spark is because of a bad crank sensor. He also told me that there was no grounding from the buttons in my right handlebar. Im away on vaca, so i wasnt there for his diagnosis.
     
  13. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    Will also look into right Handel bar buttons thanks coolbreezin
     
  14. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    OK here's an update I replace the crank position sensor bike still will not turn over. I hooked up pro tune and have six DT codes stepper motor malfunction , battery voltage , manifold air pressure sensor malfunction , throttle position sensor malfunction , intake air temperature sensor malfunction. Any suggestions on where to go from here. Getting ready to go into the right handlebar wiring to make sure I have a ground and all wires are connected and by the Way I have no turn signals when I turn the key going to look into that
     
  15. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    I have turn signal on front and rear lense but not showing in tach when turn signal is used. Maybe a short. I did check right handlebar no crimp wires.... Stumped
     
  16. Coolbreezin

    Coolbreezin Active Member

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    I spoke to Jeff today. He R&R the crank sensor, didnt help. He has traced it to the ehc. Big surprise. He says the signal goes in but does not come out. Im looking at a rewire and having just the lights, horn and flamethrower. Ill bypass the Run button also. Just key, slam button and ride away. At a later date I'll replace the bars and will have no buttons or wires/cables hanging out anywhere.
     
    #16 Coolbreezin, Jul 19, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
  17. phatchopper300

    phatchopper300 I just wanta ride

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    I already have the R I P kit installed it's looking like the ECM has gone tits up
     
  18. Coolbreezin

    Coolbreezin Active Member

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    Rewire to remove the fucked up BDM electrical system. Not as expensive as the RIP kit.
     
  19. Sven

    Sven Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to throw down the gauntlet, all those sensor malfunctions and it's all about making a square wave to communicate. This is a computer bike, so yeah, hard to pinpoint, but it's usually a ground, sans that burnt miniboard. So I want to see a wave made is simply AC passing thru a wound of wires. Only my test light knows for sure, be it a kick thru, set in gear and walk it, electric start it. I want wave before I throw parts at it.

    I have no clue the code, it's default, a this or that, but here I walk up to the computer and think this out. The odds of each sensor failing is I have to think the box functions. Look at the registry of the sensors running in the loop to communicate the DT codes. So I assume the E-box/processor/main brain is operational.

    No. I have no clue. Here is what I do know. I do not want to cut anything. I want to backprobe into a wire. I am hot or I am not. I am ground or I am not grounded. I show resistance and I am bleeding off another value-balance. I have to remember electricity is a balance.

    There is a start. Is this one of your supporters that has the sequence to this type of generic--reprogram--system--winker-ROM reset?

    See what I'm going after? From which end should I start is I have no clue? Winker bulb first, or switch wires, to relay. Take your pick, it's obvious or ??? So getting back to where to start first? I have a wire out of the loop? It sent this flash of failures in RAM? So my winker switch sequence is to hold and dump my RAM.

    Again, the DTT [toilet move theory]is your friend. Discharge--Trigger--Threshold. There is some way to 'trigger' the saved RAM is this 'threshold' showing codes. 'Discharge' is to ground the RAM and this flip-flops back to ROM... The bike restarts. Get it?
     
  20. Jwooky

    Jwooky Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like there is too much speculating, not enough verifying. The sensor should have been tested and verified it was good or bad before it was replaced.

    If the signal is really not passing through the the EHC, you can wire it directly to the VFI module to VERIFY!

    Those faults are not related to your issue.
     

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