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No crank

Discussion in 'Help Wanted' started by heems, Aug 28, 2017.

  1. heems

    heems Member

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    Hi everyone. My dog has been pretty much idle in the garage for the last year or so. The entire time I have had it on trickle charger. The battery was replaced about 3 - 4 years ago. I do try to start it up and let it warm up for about 10 minutes every 1-2 months. When I tried to do so the last couple of times and pressed start the bike didn't immediately rumble to life. I had to do the off/run/start sequence a couple of times, or press the start button a little longer. Now it has gotten to the point that it pretty much does not crank at all. I think I got it to start maybe once after trying about a dozen times.

    Some details: the head light comes on fine. Both turn signals work fine. Hazards work fine when I press both turn signals The tach sweeps fine and shows N/green lit up. The brights work fine. Horn works fine. Other than that I don't hear any mechanical clanks or sounds. I put a volt meter on the battery while disconnected and it shows 12.78V. On the right side of the battery there is a yellow "box" (ECU?) with various LEDs on it. None of the lights are on.

    Any advice on what to do next? Any way to try to isolate the problem? Do I need a new battery? Are any of the electronics bad perhaps? Would like to do some intelligent elimination of possibilities before running off and buy parts ideally.

    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. BWG56

    BWG56 Guru

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    1st, try jumping and if it starts, get a new battery or load test the one you have. If you do jump it from a car, do NOT have the car running, that will answer your battery problem. The next thing I would do is replace the gas if it has been sitting for a year or so without fresh gas. If its going to continue to sit, add stabilizer in the gas.
     
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  3. chubs

    chubs Well-Known Member

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    X 2
     
  4. FrankBDPS

    FrankBDPS Well-Known Member

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    A 3-4 year old battery has pretty much run its life span. When you hit the start button if the head light dies you're battery is done for. Check the connections to make sure they are clean and tight.
     
  5. heems

    heems Member

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    I'll try jumping it from my car and will report back. Thanks.
     
  6. bdm7250

    bdm7250 Guru
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    Make sure your car is not running when you jump the bike.
     
  7. Matheny 514

    Matheny 514 Active Member
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    There's already some good advice to read above. If you want to simplify an isolation technique, take your volt meter and attach it to the battery + and - with the bike's key OFF. Record the voltage. Then turn the key ON and record the voltage. Next, with the volt meter still attached to the battery, try to start the bike while watching the volt meter to see what the voltage drops to.

    Do not have your charger hooked up while doing this. Let us know what your voltage results are. A battery can show 12.7+VDC and still be bad.

    As Ker recommended, the fuel will need to be replaced. It does sound like a battery issue but we will know more when we see the voltage results.
     
  8. heybaylor

    heybaylor Active Member

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    plus 1
    If the voltmeter drops to 10,or less when you hit the starter, the battery is gone.
    trying to use starter with low batteries is what fries starters
     
  9. HMAN

    HMAN Well-Known Member

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    fk it
    X2. Just had a similar experience. Pulled the starter and had it tested....works perfect. 5 yr old Braille finally went. Same symptoms. New Braille on the way.
     
  10. heems

    heems Member

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    I jumped the bike from the car (while off). Pretty much started every time I pressed the start. Looks like I am in for a new battery. Will know for sure once the replacement arrives, but very glad and hopeful its not something electronic. Thank you for all your help.
     
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  11. Hirter6Pack

    Hirter6Pack Not Quite A Guru
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    Somebody's going to say it so I might as well be me.
    There you go .:old2:
     
  12. BWG56

    BWG56 Guru

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    :stupid::oldhardlaugh::oldhardlaugh:
     
  13. heems

    heems Member

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    Forgot to post the data:

    12.60V with key in off position
    12.42V with key in on position
    8V during 1st attempt cranking
    10V during the 2nd attempt cranking
     
  14. heybaylor

    heybaylor Active Member

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    I think you have found the problem
     
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  15. heems

    heems Member

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    OK, an update on my issue: The problem is in essence back. I have some more information however which I think rules out the new battery. Mainly, I had it load tested. That points the issue is someplace else. I did a couple more things that can point to some additional clues: There is a green wire that goes to the solenoid(?) I unplugged that wire and observed two things:

    1) I had a volt meter on it, and it showed a constant 8V on it. Not sure that's normal, but I thought it'd be zero. When I press the run button, the voltage jumps to 12V (but see point #2 below).
    2) When I press the run button, I *intermittently* hear a "klang" just as that voltage jumps to 12V. A metallic clang like a relay closing. The sounds seems to come from from left under the engine? If no klang, the voltage stays at 8V.

    Based on #2 above, I think either the start button PCB micro button is going bad or is it perhaps some relay that's going bad. That fact that there is 8V on a line to the solenoid seems like a leak from that relay, I don't know.

    Questions:
    - Could anyone hook me up with the shop manual or at least just the circuit diagram so I can trace the lines a bit better?
    - Are the PCB boards for sale some place or given their custom nature I should get to soldering a new micro button on there myself?
    - Is there indeed a relay that closes first and can that be bought/replaced?

    Any other input / advise appreciated.

    Cheers!
     
  16. shansel88

    shansel88 Member

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    sounds like starter solenoid??
    My bet is either the starter is going bad and its requiring excessive voltage to pull in, or you have a short somewhere that is drawing down your voltage example being compression release or elsewhere.
    These can sometimes be tough to diagnose. I installed the push button on my starter, just as emergency back up for this exact issue. I fought mine for almost 1 year, before finding that wire from speedometer area had shorted out and meld to bare wire from speedometer back through the connector under the tank.
     
  17. Th3InfamousI

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    Constant 8v on the starter solenoid wire is valid if you have the original EHC?

    The metal noise you are hearing when that green wire is disconnected is your compression releases activating which I what you want. Stick your finger on the bubble in the head and you can feel them go down. You should however make sure they both are going down.

    Your going through a lot of hoops for a battery BTW. Just replace the battery, you confirmed it started everytime off the car? 3-4 years is about the lifespan of a battery. Just replace it and then go from there..

    Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
     
  18. shansel88

    shansel88 Member

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    oh, i thought he replaced battery and still had issue???
     
  19. BWG56

    BWG56 Guru

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    Just an FYI,
    When I had the updated ECH installed in my bike from the dealer, one of the changes in 07' and up is that the head light will turn off while cranking/starting the bike, the ESC in my bike now also does the same thing.
     
  20. heems

    heems Member

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    Yes I have the original EHC. Everything is stock on this bike. So the 8V on the solenoid is normal. Good to know.

    I'll check the compression releases, but if when I press run and they intermittently activate, this means something with the PCB is wrong? It feels like if I keep the run button pressed harder for a little longer that's then the klang / compress releases happen... would it be easy to put a volt meter across the micro button to see if the button is working every time?

    Ps: yes the battery has already been replaced and load tested.
     

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