My map is crap-ping out. Watt gives? Basics 101

Energy One

Sven

Well-Known Member
You have no idea what you talking about. Nothing factual at all in what you said.
Jwo, then please explain, 'The Method.' This stuff is so complex, I had to start another thread so the first part does not confuse this part. I have asked so many times about FI, no one is reading out of the factory shop manuals. How do you think I come up withishit, listening to you give me brake drills and skills? :D

A couple of us are getting something from this. Don't fuck it up for us because you don't get it!
Thanks, stil. See, 'Mikie likes it.' I have my critics, Mike. I seem to always need to prove myself over and over. Like racing, you are as good as your last race sort of critical; that we establish both theory and entertainment.

That abstract speak is real tricky. Some are bringing in the parts of the puzzle and that is where that secret stuff lies. There is no lie, you can crop the algo numbers to rep the repetition within that cylinder failure, meaning, that next round of stroke, still rep's a 1 or an 0; no matter the speak [code write] or speed.

That speed means smooth. The faster the sample input, this too will outperform any carb flow feel. So yeah, I'm not saying that part of the puzzle you brought in was not part of the conversation. I had to digest your post overnight. Keep bringing those parts in of that black box. We can still watch the ON and OFF of it.

We did not change the block or the square size. We dissected it into more byte. Sort of like saying, I am a slow clock if I am one block; I can clock on/off and do very little calc. So, I am about all sensor'd out. My clock speed is only the VOES. My other trunk space is to have my backup/fail-safe/limp mode to my ignition.

I am now adding to my ultimate timing. I am base timing, remember. I am no longer in VOESuck. So, I am direct 10° t0 55° advanced; under limp. This is my timing only. I am still sucking carb, so there are no 'compensator sensors,' just the IAP and that spark going on and off is the crank's speeding [my ultimate].

I am at 'Alpha'N = Remember, no VOES plugged in. :up:
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Such confusion, hostility, and name calling....
Without that, I'd lose interest. It's not that it's entertaining, I'm watching humanity.

I think this was an excellent post, not only did I actually read this 3 or 4 times over to profile this Sven, I enjoy his other post also. I found the "I want to be the trees lawyer" the best yet.
WOW, I wasn't expecting this. Do you mean, the monkeys in the trees all yapping in the jungle of tech no crap of mine? :D


I have watched his videos, read over all his previous posts have found this game actually quite entertaining in figuring out what is/who is Sven. I was actually surprised in his braking his own rules and showing or proving himself to any one of you of his bikes.
I like the challenge. Rules? Dare are no rules wit 'intertainment.' Remember where you are. On the net.

Looking at his videos evaluate the car license plates. Look at his surrounding. His lack of or no information is the most fun to figure out. The spider theme is most curious. But the name least of all I would expect more, a more original, someone with more intelligence then Kevin Spacey..... In wood shop the saw blade was always broke, but I could always count on the drinking fountain, I might have Not received an ice cube. I was always quenched.
Oh, Kevin? A fine actor. My last name was Dev Resinep :roll: I don't know about Devin? Here is the spider's walk backasswords you connect the dots. You are more stuck in this same web I'm in. I take you along for a ride on my abyss. If it's name calling you want, I guess I have to party with it too. Something is served into all this name calling. I'm trying to make conversation about A bike in general. I almost have to pay royalty fees to hear the comments I've read from some of you. It would make a great book on those quotes alone. :lol:

Enjoy, K9

Someone called me out again. They said I have no clue about electrics. I wire a bike from scratch. I can lay wire too. This bike schooled me. I'm waiting for the other guy to begin discussing the a-N method?



I did not magically set all these wires up in one swell swoop. This was done with one wire at a time. One AFReadata time. I gathered my data. I matched input, I received output. I one and zero'd the bike. I air sucked it. Watched air pressure push the ram effect. I could hear this bike gulp air like a human, it's on video.

I set this bike so limp, the power dropped off it is so safety valved. I had to follow book procedure and came up with all this crap now. Who is going to tell me how to read the manual, an MMI graduate? :rolleyes: :roll:

How about that clutch basketrick? I had Cody come out of hiding for dis one.
:job: Call me Dev'inn :hi:
 

Fibersnake

Banjo Playing PsychoBilly
Well to be honest, I do have to say that his writing are very interesting and entertaining to me. Maybe it is cause I am stuck over here in Taliban Land and have not had the leg stung over two wheel in three months.

Still I like reading them, even if it confusing and a little different.

As far as what he is trying to pass, still will say that he does appear to have some real information and knowledge, more how he puts it across, or maybe it is the some of the stuff I may have taken in the early 70's, but I do see some knowledge in what he is saying.

Regardless, see no harm in any of it and he does make it clear at the begining no need to read.

I like the old school chopper in his Video also and somewhere down in my gut, if I was to meet him and go riding, I have a feeling it would be a pleasure, strange maybe but a pleasure none the less.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Oh, this is entertainment more for you guys over there than here. Any distraction to make the day go faster and you guys are home quicker... The better!
 

Infinitro

Thread Killer
Well to be honest, I do have to say that his writing are very interesting and entertaining to me. Maybe it is cause I am stuck over here in Taliban Land and have not had the leg stung over two wheel in three months.

Still I like reading them, even if it confusing and a little different.

As far as what he is trying to pass, still will say that he does appear to have some real information and knowledge, more how he puts it across, or maybe it is the some of the stuff I may have taken in the early 70's, but I do see some knowledge in what he is saying.

Regardless, see no harm in any of it and he does make it clear at the begining no need to read.

I like the old school chopper in his Video also and somewhere down in my gut, if I was to meet him and go riding, I have a feeling it would be a pleasure, strange maybe but a pleasure none the less.
+1 What fibe said. Now where did I put my Sven to English manual.........
 

demon dog

Active Member
Well, I for one am opting out. Will no longer read svens posts as I don't find incoherent ramblings entertaining. This a-hole wants everyone to believe that he is a genius- that he is just too intelligent for us apes to follow-that he is so intelligent that he can't communicate worth a shit. I don't buy into his elitist bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

stlmikie

I wish I had more money.
Check ya later!




Well, I for one am opting out. Will no longer read svens posts as I don't find incoherent ramblings entertaining. This a-hole wants everyone to believe that he is a genius- that he is just too intelligent for us apes to follow-that he is so intelligent that he can't communicate worth a shit. I don't buy into his elitist bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Will no longer read svens posts as I don't find incoherent ramblings entertaining.
We ascribe beauty to that which is simple; which has no superfluous parts; which exactly answers its ends.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson


This a-hole -can't communicate worth a shit.
Neither is a dictionary a bad book to read. There is no cant in it, no excess of explanation, and it is full of suggestions, the raw material of possible poems and histories.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
 

Fibersnake

Banjo Playing PsychoBilly
Well I will also say compared to some of the other stuff we have had on this forum from some member over the year, hell this is a relief. Just go back and read such some the stuff that Baby Ray or Vince put up!

Infinitro, could you send me a copy of the manual also.

demon dog-understand, easisit thing for anyone to do if they do not want to read his post, just go on to others. Something for everyone in this forum.

Sven-Thanks, as you said anything to make the day go by easier is appreciated.
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
MMI MissedMostInstructions.wmv - YouTube

This was last nights clutch setup. I had my teacher sign me off at my clutch assembly station post. I have that dick following me like they throw negative at me, I mirror it back. More, I shove it so far up their ass, they see it from inside their skull, assbackwards.

Now, look at the digital lines. is that not; Quad lines vs. VOES or the analog single line? I think you are on to something about that math calc in the quad? It still has to run thru the 60mhz cycle, no? All I am showing is concept. All I am writing out is an abstract. All I am saying is that the black box can be clinked into. I just do not know how?

So, if I'm riding in the digital ping, you are somewhat riding in the analog swing. For the vacuum switch to work, you'll see both a vacuum is functioning is the physical part of the sensor. The electrical is read at the ohm meter. I believe this is a good known component to test on some other bike? Since it came off the crasher, I had to school myself not MMI myself.

If you want to argue clutch assembly and things like finding N real easy, it is all about final setup. You can dick with the way the bike assembles, then why can't I take a shot at it? You rather follow MMI directions???... Well, you can stick your head in that [clutch] ring of... Fill in the blanks. I have my own approach thank you.

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations, and epochs it is the rule.
- Friedrich Nietzsche
 

Abaco21

Active Member
Come on, isn't anyone going to atleast thank him for posting the F1 Renault engine vid?

Sven, you get down with your bad self! And thanks for posting that vid!
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Well, that F1 engine is all about 02 sensors. That fuel trim you see is all about the a-N and the D-J. Again, I am going to throw out all this shop manual jargon, being, corporate uses their terms so they have their own same name for the same function.

Since I'm confused as it is, I'm sticking with the analog TV screen so you can capture the 2 fuel trims happening. This way, you can watch that monitor give off those waves off the screen and you decipher what it means? I'm sticking with my own theory since it walks more in the way that 1/2 turns to the other fuel trims.

Gotta remember Ultimate FI is crank-P. So, when that rpm hits the half mark. When that trim at the bottom [D-J is the lower trim], we watch the a-N at the WOT. What my research says is that D-J is the evolutionary stage of the electronics.

a-N = This is where it stands for alpha. The N stands for all the numbers that are about to be calc'd. This is method about loads. The vacuum load at the IAP is lost. Here comes the backup. The calc is on against the rpm.

D-J = This means where we are in the ECU. So, when we turned our TV's over to digital, the analog still throws the large lower left cube. Whereas, the the unicycle wave of cycles is really the angle of both seeing the digital screen and using a digital camera. Man, it sure looks like multi-cube levels set in as a digital signal now.

Would you say there are more pixels space? More ground to travel? Clearer picture? Cleaner throttle apply? Crisp digital throttle apply now. We are talking, hands leave the bars crisp. We are talking, twitch to the max. This says, digital-jetronics. This says, 'Method.'

When VOES drops out of the loop, it reverts to the backup. The limp. The fail-safe. The "Method." The ECU takes over where the vacuum left off. To protect itself from damage, 3 things kick in:

1. Fuel pressure drop.
2. Ignition drop.
3. Throttle drop.

With the carb, there is no pressure, nor throttle loss. Once this method kicks in, she can limp your ass home, but the bitch about it is, you need to replace the 'compensator' sensors. And with the VOES for example, being the only comp part, it only means getting you back to the 'soft apply.'

However, this method is more described in the car scene as the 'hard apply' or what the software was saying on the screen. Since the bikes are only now getting away from carbs, the software is more injection oriented. The software more breaks down the parts in car speak.

So, universally speak, we are in the backup mode of the method. The load signals. The rpm signals. The, where did the sensor go for my input signal? Oh well, here comes the backup signal is the output signal.

Hard Set = Digital ~ Simply stated; A wall switch that turns on and off.

Soft Set = Analog ~ This signal [WAS] the rheostat type wall light switch. So linear, it throttles up from dim to bright.

This is sort of in method [digitally hard and crisp] or out of method [analog smooth and linear]. No harsh transition from low-mid-mid-hi.

When they yank the VOES hose off, they run in method. It is either or. It is that basic. Now, did you sort of get bits and pieces you can put together? It gets more complex with more sensors.

The tuning gets easier the more you know. More like, the more you know not what to touch and what you can get away with. Which is not much. So, that FI engine is not so mysterious now, is it? You know both fuel trims. The method is there no matter watt. You just can't tell when it happens, it is so redundant. Backup is redundancy. Mimic what was lost.

A. If we yanked the sensor IAP, a-N would cover that side of the mid-WOT.

B. If we lost the TPS sensor off the throttle end, the D-J method would take over, backup the low to mid range.

C. If we lost both, meaning, had the crank-p gone belly up?; this is the last sensor to go before the bike is a boat anchor. So, did the crank-p and ECU keep the engine running?

The question for the skeptics are; do we have both low-mid-mid-hi trims covered in a sort of backup, redundant mode, yes or no?

Does this walk like in the absolute? I am just explaining what is said from some shop man you will pay down the road for dis dissing and pissing. Some of the crew here are now light years ahead of you. And it is not my fault there are poise pads where that door swings and depends if you stay... I can't finish the joke... Someone take over. :roll:
 
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Sven

Well-Known Member
If I condensed enough general FI steps between both threads, we can see our bike begins to assemble quite a few injection parts. As we move away from the carb, our ignition has been taken over too, as you might have guessed. We cannot:

1. Regain our analog type advance curve.
2. Add the linear advance curve back into a hard set. Would not the (+/- kick in?)
3. Move the hall effect part of the tone wheel window thru that sweep. Meaning, physically move the magnet where it is cast and machined with set screws. Did you not move the 'leading edge' away from that tiny baseline of the stock ignition? Gotta follow the edge as designed, right?

Map wise:

A. Are we in a hard set already is the lost sensor? Yes. So, choose an ultimate sensor. Say, did not the IAP sign off? We now have the hard or the a-N is in play? Yep.

B. Here is the knock on the black box that is behind door #2. WATT happens next? Does a-N default to both fuel trims or fuel cutoffs? It addresses the one. But, if that code is set, that advance curve sure changed for both mid down to low too. It is so redundant, I can tell, seat of the pants. I can hear it with a better set of digital ears. All I can feel is the advance curve changed at both upper and lower mids.

C. If you think about it, if the VOES is cut off, then both a-N and D-J are addressed in the 'method.' So if the TPS hits the deep 6, is not the D-J in control? Yeah right. It is still set in the method so both kick in if on does, the other has to, I would think? That is the delphi/mikuni question.That says, you can't change the hard ignition once set. Especially with a pig's software. The aftermarket ignition map cannot change that hard curve setting in a way. It does not have the ability to click the hard off and send the soft back. That takes internal hacking into the factory software. Find the hard/soft drop down box, click the other back.

So, limp wise, you are still changing an injection time, cannot re-plot that lost 40° curve back in on a hard setting. It does change the ignition curve you defaulting with the ROM and the two backup calc boxes. What this means is, under one of the default codes, the switch was set to the hard backup. So, pig that curve out is you cannot is what I am saying is occurring at the hard set being guarded by the ROM against your input.

The concept says; I am going to re-jet my bike with my piggy's software. I think I can reinstall the smooth curve, plus have a rich torque grunt at so and so AFR number. Well, yes you can change that fuel trim, but to remove that hard is fat chance tuning. Even the flash of the ECU still has to be tuned by the piggy's fuel trimming.

The abstract says; I will still be under a limp mode, HA-HAaaaaaa! You thought you could get the limp out of me. But no, the backup box calc'd your move. We are still in a crisp/twitch/hands gotta grab some grip or off the seat you go.

I don't know how far I've gotten you into FI function yet? Here is why you have to go back to reading it 3 or 4 times > to connect the dots:

1Atmo that atmosphere is our number we calc from.
Crank is my ultimate sensor or I am a boat anchor.
I run linear smooth in the soft setting.
I run race set in the hard set.
I cannot have both.
I know a backup to one sensor is happening.
I ruined a well balanced electrical pulse by removing one of 3wV's. However...
I am tunable in a fashion that a carb could not duplicate.
I have electrically combined a blend of a-N and D-J levels.
I have a tunable computer.
I have to recognize I am in either mode.
I have to accept the crisp, not pleasant to the wrist, nor the annoying twitch in traffic I have to deal with.
I have no options but to remain in soft mode for street-ability.
I have lost the smooth transition I can live with for hours on end.
I have no arm pump holding on in the linear mode.
I have it big time in the twitch of it.
I have this big assmile my plumber cleavage could not duplicate.

This says; My RAM is writing over the ROM but not with the twitch locked in the loop. ROM still locked me out in a 3wV kind of way.

This says; Gotta go back, read the 3wV's.

This says; No matter the combination of the LOSS of the VOES...

This says: ... Fill in the blanks, guys/gals.

__________________________________________________________________

Onto the Various/Compensator/Those other sensors. You tell me. Did we cover 3 sensors to the 'Basic FI Timing"? IAP/Crank-P/TPS and their backups?

I figured if that cube abstract made sense in some way, a few of you can sort of figure this here out. This is the real shit right here. Does this make sense or am I bullshitting you? Did you come away with a better understanding of that injector move? The ignition move? I'm sticking with the one sensor [VOES] so you do not fear all those other sensors.

Wezza ain't in OZ anymore dropping float bowls, gap'inn points. :eek:

Next video, you will need a set of earphones to really hear some changes. You can hear this initial human type suck sound; when I WOT the throttle open. You can hear the soft and hard fuel trims occurring as I toggle a default code. All those wires laid on that bike have a purpose to some sensor.

Imagine, I throw all those codes at the fuel injection system. There was a high end MB, with a throaty exhaust. He was sporting on some road. I was coming up on the guy, so he sort of pushed faster too. Thing about it was, I was trying to grab hold of the toggles shutting them down. The more I flipped them off, the more robust the bike became.

Imagine, I read the book's abstract and it says, 'We take measures to save the engine...' Here I am in [many] limp modes as the chase is on. Read where his taillights are manufactured too. I had one limp remaining on. Wore his ass out, then passed his ass; 'he was done.'

Moral of the story? Stay out of limp.
 

pknowles

RETIRED
Supporting Member
Where is she? Get her over here. Mrs. Lady? I am here with a few fell ears. I've been explaining things out of, "Chew Ya Child's Pay Book." Dare are days I wake up, chew on my cabbage twice aroundear. Day have no clue about WATT Dime talking about either.

My guess is you are probably right about something, Sweetheart. Men just don't understand women like I do. She is on the rack right now. If you do not see it her way. If you do not like it, you pay with what he swings all 3 legs over her/you/watts the difference?

No offense, Mrs. Lady, butt some men are the plumbers, some men call the plumber. I might find some [ear], paying out of pocket. I'm not pointing fingers. Just say'inn.

You guys! :roll:
Morning Sven, I extended your offer to the old lady and she says"no thanks, don't need a dildo around here". In all honesty I do appreaciate you information on FI. I am fighting a low speed(Idle) miss(Spark?) on her 07 fi harley, rear cylinder. Checked the plug, wires, and coil. Any thoughts.?
 

Fibersnake

Banjo Playing PsychoBilly
Watching the video and reading Sven EFI thread sures make me miss the days of messing with the pills and getting the right shimming for a high speed by-pass valve on an old Hillborn, usually along with spending a good many hours with a bunch of weights and springs trying to get a perfect curve for a distributor while using a King Machine.

Hell I may still have some various sized rotors in the tool box for the fuel pumps along with a Unisync!
 

Sven

Well-Known Member
Morning Sven, I extended your offer to the old lady and she says"no thanks, don't need a dildo around here". In all honesty I do appreaciate you information on FI. I am fighting a low speed(Idle) miss(Spark?) on her 07 fi harley, rear cylinder. Checked the plug, wires, and coil. Any thoughts.?
Afternoon, PK

Yes, I have a few tries. One is going to be a night call. The other is a timing light move.

1. Night vision ~ This is where you take a water bottle with a mister head. The spark will show up a lot better when dark, so you let the bike idle, spray water at the plug wire(s). If you see the spark jump, but not the other plug wire, then probably the coil wire or fitting is in question. There is your miss to ground, not to the center to side electrodes.

2. With a timing light ~ Taped to the bars, the trigger is taped as well, the aim is to watch the flicker go out as you drive. If it misses, it's timing for both of these tries. Before you chase fuel, see if the spark is blowing out first?
 

pknowles

RETIRED
Supporting Member
Thanks Seven, I'll give it a try tomorrow night after work, it's been raining here all day long. Remember "All cats appear grey in the dark" Ben Franklin
 

2004BC

FREEDOM!!!
Afternoon, PK

Yes, I have a few tries. One is going to be a night call. The other is a timing light move.

1. Night vision ~ This is where you take a water bottle with a mister head. The spark will show up a lot better when dark, so you let the bike idle, spray water at the plug wire(s). If you see the spark jump, but not the other plug wire, then probably the coil wire or fitting is in question. There is your miss to ground, not to the center to side electrodes.

2. With a timing light ~ Taped to the bars, the trigger is taped as well, the aim is to watch the flicker go out as you drive. If it misses, it's timing for both of these tries. Before you chase fuel, see if the spark is blowing out first?
Now those are a couple of pretty cool troubleshooting tricks. Never thought of that. I wish you would stick with the technical help. That is appreciated by all. The rest, not so much. Thanks!
:cheers:
 
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