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First dyno

Discussion in 'Dyno Runs' started by Bhawkins854, May 10, 2016.

  1. liferider

    liferider Guru

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    image.jpeg Going back to your original question on HP & pipes. Yes with no back pressure on the valves you will loose horse power . Some pipes cause quite a lot of HP loss like drag pipes while some 2 into 1 do not add hp while others build HP. I did a lot of research in this and two of the biggest names agree the Thunder Header 2 into 1 builds more power than any other exhaust system on the market. Eddie Trodda and Kendall Johnson told me this 4 yrs ago when I built up my 88 EVO motor in my 1996 Ultra Classic. The cherry on top was my 2 into 1 Thunder header. I am Dynoing 98 Hp as of 6 months ago when I upped my injector size!
     
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  2. Bhawkins854

    Bhawkins854 Member

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    I have about 25 thousandths clearance intake valve to pistons when I checked my squish. .I had to machine my relief pockets deeper with this 626 cam, and wider to accommodate the .060 oversized valves. I don't think I could get a taller cam in here, s&s doesn't recommend anything less than 25 thou piston to valve if I'm not mistaken. Not sure how everyone else gets such giant cams to fit in the 117? I can't remember how much material they machined from the heads and jugs but it shouldn't be anymore than usual, especially with a decently mild 10.5:1 CR. Maybe the cam selection is the difference
     
  3. Bhawkins854

    Bhawkins854 Member

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    Would be very interested to find out what others have found for piston to valve clearances after raising compression on the 117..I would be nervous to go any taller than the lift this 626 has, and I don't wanna pull the heads again to check
     
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  4. liferider

    liferider Guru

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    Usually nothing is removed from jugs. Everything is taken off the heads. Your not adjusting your stroke, your dropping the ceiling of your heads to build a tighter area for the compression to build. With my bike we kept the valves small to build torque which in turn builds HP. again, with my 88'' evo motor. Kendall decked the heads .010 and with the high compression piston's and the decking. My compression went from 7.5-1 up to 10.5-1. that's almost a 38% increase!
     
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  5. MrDozerMan

    MrDozerMan Member

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    We had 12:7 compression if I remember right. Hillside had to machine a piston from scratch to get the compression that high. Can't remember the clearance they stayed with.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Bhawkins854

    Bhawkins854 Member

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    I heard that the 117 used extra material in the jugs to dummy the compression down for EPA, that's what I was told. Pretty sure they machiened. 050 from the jugs and like .020 from the heads. Seems a bit much..
     
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  7. Bhawkins854

    Bhawkins854 Member

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    Holy balls 12.7 is crazy!! What octane fuel are you running?
     
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  8. Bhawkins854

    Bhawkins854 Member

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    Must have cost an arm and a leg to make pistons, the 117 has a goofy 4 piece oil ring set up, not to mention the notches in the skirt for the piston oilers
     
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  9. MrDozerMan

    MrDozerMan Member

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    114 :). I had the 2 into 1 exhaust dilemma too. I just figured if I had to spend that much $ on an exhaust, why not put that $ in the motor.

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  10. john sachs

    john sachs Active Member

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    Where are some of you getting these tall stories from ???
    If you're spending your money on mods, or doing them yourselves, you need to know about everything that's being done.
    FWIW, I've been doing Trotta's head work, and most of his Harley Davidson combos for over 10 years. Never knew him to use a Thunderheader.
    Straight pipes WILL NOT cost you much horsepower. They will hurt low end torque.The Thunderheader is good on most small cu. in. motors.
    John
     
    #30 john sachs, May 10, 2016
    Last edited: May 10, 2016
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  11. liferider

    liferider Guru

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    like the 88' EVO that i am running.
     
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  12. Bhawkins854

    Bhawkins854 Member

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    John, I had my head/machiene work done by Lee's speed shop out here in MN, they did all the machine work for the guys at fury motorcyle. I got a wild hair and decided to rip mine apart while my buddy was fixing his 107 so we helped each other with the builds. That being said, Lee had the reputation for having the right formula for the epa 117 so I brought the parts to him and let him do his thing. I'm definitely no expert with motorcycles, just hear many stories of open pipes killing dyno numbers all the time, I'm sure it's all hear say and obviously every build is different. Just wished I could run a bunch of different pipes and see if I can make any improvements.
     
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  13. john sachs

    john sachs Active Member

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    I don't know Lee Wixom, but hear through my good friend Mike Roland, that Lee knows "what's up". Tell him about your issues, and I think he would try to help you.
    John
     
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  14. Bhawkins854

    Bhawkins854 Member

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    I'll have to stop by and talk with Lee again. After my heads were done he gave me a build summary with the flow charts and everything, in the binder there was some reading material that stated "it's not unheard of to lose up to 20hp with drag pipes, get yourself a GOOD set 2 into 1 pipes." Not sure how much truth is to that but it got me thinking after my dyno is all
     
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  15. Srodden

    Srodden Well-Known Member

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    You will always have more fun on your toys with low end torque rather than high end torque
     
  16. MrDozerMan

    MrDozerMan Member

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    But why spend all that money for torque. When your going through the gears you want to know your getting your money's worth. Thats a lot of $ for being able to pass a car easier without downshifting.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
     
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  17. Olde Man

    Olde Man Member

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    The cam torque curve looks pretty normal to me although I am a car man and have limited experince with V Twins. Eric probably has it right with the cam selection. Usually if it is a exhaust problem it will have a big dip in the mid range torque curve. You can feel these when they lay down. The .070 is about how far the pistons are down in the hole on a Big Dog 117" EPA motor. Cutting the jugs for zero deck brought mine to 10.5 to 1. I think I used stock thickness gaskets on the base and heads. The clearance problems with the valves comes from the pistons chasing the valves closed. The cam , compression and RPM usage should match. Compression is used to help with the lack of cylinder fill at higher RPM's. It is hard to get a low compression motor to horse power. HP = Torque x RPM /5250 Making torque at a higher RPM (HP) just means you can stay in the gear a little longer and benefit from that mechanical advantage. Look at a torque curve and figure out how far you can ride the curve down before you can shift and loose the gear advantage and pick up the increase in torque. If you follow this then you understand torque and horsepower. Sounds like Sven doesn't it? I'm even sober.
     
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  18. Bhawkins854

    Bhawkins854 Member

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    Lol that's funny! Makes sense about the .070, they did take .050 off the jugs and .020 off the heads I just checked my sheet. I had a guy from Donnie smith make a custom muffler section that clamps onto my super Trapp header pipes a couple years ago, he used to work for reinhart and did a good job with it, then my header pipes cracked and I wanted to change things up. I'm going to get those header pipes fixed and get it back to a dyno house that will actually tune it. These guys were pissed off cuz I was about 20 minutes late for my Saturday dyno and seemed like they just wanted to get it done. Didn't change any jetting or really make any adjustments. Pretty sure my jetting is a little rich.
     
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  19. Little-Boo

    Little-Boo Well-Known Member
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    That is why I said too much or not enough fuel. The Thunder jets work great at about 4500 RPM or greater, I have two of them and I still use a 32/76 jets. I have also used the 2-1 exhaust (RPGeezs ) and they were good but not what I was looking for. I switched to the FDS and I am glad with the performance I get. I have the bigger intake valves but only 2.02 with 1.605 exhaust and not the 2.06 like Brendan. Heads were decked 0.030 ported and Polished by WFOLarry Motorcycle Machine Inc. in Oak Lawn ILL, and I use Cometic 0.010 Base Gasket and 0.030 Head Gaskes. I run the Wood Performance W6HF 650 lift Cam and springs with the JIM's Hydro-Solid Lifters and 32 Tooth Trans Pulley. My ignition is the Adjustable Thunder Heart on Position "D". Call me Crazy or nuts but this MF pulls hard all way to 120 and there is more, but that is when I let off I am scared to shit my pants. The reason for the cometic gaskets is that the stock head gasket compress is 0.043 and the stock base gasket is 0.020 so the 0.023 that I gain from the cometic gaskets along with 0.030 off the heads put me at 10.4 or so without having to deck the cylinders.

    Carlos :eek:
     
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  20. Srodden

    Srodden Well-Known Member

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    I guess because your down low more than way up high jmo
     
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