Documenting the rebuild of my Pro Sport 107 - motor, exhaust, etc and some WTFs

Energy One

05chop

Well-Known Member
This word pops up and its needs help (LUGGING) incorect selection of gear or WOT and cant excelerate? Lets say your on a dyno with all probs installed oil temp,egt,rpm or pulling a steep hill.All of us start out in first then we shift (our tork multiplier)transmission going thur gears hit the hill at WOT motor slows down still at WOT and RPM stay the same but it wont excelerate this is what I call lugging all you are doing is slowing down air flow thur the engine and raising the EGT not good.We all know where the sweet spot of the rpm are on our bikes so select proper gear when load is applyed.If you take the load out of this you are in the wrong gear.
 

pauly

Active Member
I don't think that you have red all of the info on that site.
They sell a little adjustment screw that you install in your oil pump. Then you can adjust your oil pressure with that screw and leave it set.

Paul.

PS: I have never suggested to put heavier spring in!!! With the adjusting screw you can adjust the oil pressure UP or DOWN !!!
There is also other good info why the oil pressure could be abnormal.

Just trying to help.



You shouldn't need the heavy duty springs unless you live in a super hot climate. I do swap out my stock spring in the summer months in Texas when it's tripple digits to a stiffer spring to pump oil better. However I wouldn't recommend it unless outside temps rise above 100.

In this instance he already has too much pressure so realistically would need NOT as heavy of a stock spring.
 
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LA_Dog

Go Fast, Go Faster
I don't think that you have red all of the info on that site.
They sell a little adjustment screw that you install in your oil pump. Then you can adjust your oil pressure with that screw and leave it set.

Paul.
Paul- Thanks brother, yep I took a look at their stuff- The "pro just" seems pretty cool, and it does dial the pressure up or down via the cap. My "tweak" on the spring worked wonders. I was out riding today and my oil pressure hot at idle is 8, and revving out is low 40's. just about perfecto. :up:

And... I no longer have massive oil puking!!! hooray!!! I get a few dribbles of oil carryover now out of the top breather but that is it. Nothing a sock filter won't take care of.

So here's the deal. If your oil pressure is too high it is because that relief valve is not opening at lower pressure. All of the oil is going to the rockers. it does not start fully flowing oil to the lower end until that relief valve opens. So my rockers were getting flooded with oil and no where to go but out breathers. Wow I guess I know more now than the "professional" shop... :down:
 

BBChopper

Supports 2 Disabled Vets
Troop Supporter
A text message from the shop? Seriously? What is the world coming to?

I posted on your other post regarding oil presure around 30lbs at normal operating temp at 3k+ RPM

60lbs is why you got oil shooting out of the holes and flying all over the place.


Cold start up - 44 PSI
Warm engine @ 55 mph - 30-36 PSI
Warm at idle - 10 PSI
:yesnod:

Sounds like allot of PSI!! I have always been told these things are low to start with!
 

LA_Dog

Go Fast, Go Faster
:2thumbs: I'm glad you've got it under control mate! :2thumbs:

Paul. :cheers:
Cheers Paul- BTW great country you got there, I spent 6 months drove from Sydney up coast to QLD / Cairns, and back! No bike unfortunately but had a total blast nonetheless. good times.
 

pauly

Active Member
Thank you.
I made it my home 33 years ago when I came here from Czechoslovakia.

:cheers:
 
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LA_Dog

Go Fast, Go Faster
Hey everyone hope you're all getting some good weather and riding time. So my bike is still running, I went through it top to bottom and took care of a few things that were way not right. carb adjustment was off, no accelerator pump set, exhaust leak on rear head at flange, ignition set too advanced, swapped to 1 cooler range of plug, got my oil pressure straightened out, stopped the oil puking, fixed the loose front engine mount, fixed the fragged stator plug and put in a new battery.

I've been doing at least one 10 mile "bombing run" per day just to keep putting miles on her and see how she goes. I'm almost at 300 miles on it. I know. it's just been tough having to work a lot lately. With the adjustments and everything this bitch is FAST AS SHIT. Not taking her over 4000rpm, mostly shifting at 3500, but getting some good throttle roll-ons and an occasional blip to 4500-5000. So taking it easy but aggressive enough.

I am going to check the KP oil filter again this weekend and see what's in it- I talked to SS and they said that some metal pieces could be normal as long as they are not over say 1mm and no long slivers, and I might see this throughout the initial break in miles. some of it could be from machining etc and not necessarily pieces breaking off things. Mine were all 1mm or smaller, and I did have one long curly sliver, so all I can do is keep riding and she'll either live or die hard.

If she lives, I can't wait to see what the dyno shows because really, this bike is a damn rocket ship- and this is coming from someone who used to race Honda 600's and Suzuki 750's at the track. I almost think it needs a wider tire just to get more hook-up off the line, and hell I'm not even hitting it hard off the line yet (big grin).

Anyway- shes running very good right now, does not get hot, idles perfectly, good oil pressure, no smoke out the exhaust, not using oil except for a few drops out top breather. I could benefit from a proper tune and possibly larger main jet. hitting about 12-13 AFR across the board and about 11AFR at idle. My ignition advance timing is 28 degrees max @4500 RPM WOT, and hits max sooner at 3000RPM with the VOES engaged. plugs look good the rear plug is a few shades whiter on insulator than the front. It's gotta be making some crazy compression because even with my new Antigravity 720CCA battery and Spyke starter, it will NOT spin at startup - cold or hot - unless I pop BOTH the releases. Can't even get away with only popping one :D

Everyone please send lots and lots of positive energy my way - lord knows my bike needs it!
 
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LA_Dog

Go Fast, Go Faster
hey all quick update. Finally have about 350 miles on, still running. I did 150 miles since last oil change and took a peek in the KP oil filter. Good news is there was no metal particles like last time so I may be in the clear.

For the hell of it I double checked my static timing and discovered it was set at 40 goddamn degrees. Really?? How does someone F$%@ that up? Set compression TDC on motor, ground plug wires, power on, turn ignition module until light goes off. 35 degrees done. Again, how do you not do that right?? Fortunately I have been running a very tame 28 degree max advance curve via the Twin Tec module so no pinging or anything, but that still means I was effectively running 32 degrees max adv..
 

FrankBDPS

Well-Known Member
Glad you are getting it all figured out. How are you liking the exhaust pipes? Does the rear support bracket bolt to the transmission?
 

LA_Dog

Go Fast, Go Faster
Glad you are getting it all figured out. How are you liking the exhaust pipes? Does the rear support bracket bolt to the transmission?
I like the pipe- the quality of finish and chrome is "jewelry" quality. the fitment was tight but just cleared the 6 speed trans by a hair. it came with a beefy well made bracket that bolts to trans, and pair of spacers. had to buy 2 longer bolts, trim spacers a bit (spacers slide over the bolts), and it lined up perfectly on bike.

My buds riding with me say the pipe sounds awesome. When you get on it it's loud, when idling / cruising it is not as loud but it ain't quiet either. You'll definitely wake the neighbors firing this thing up in the morning. Cruising at speed on freeway or town 2500-3500 rpm light throttle and it is very livable. will not give you a cruising headache at all. :D

I'd say the sound is more sporty / tuned, it definitely sounds like a "performance harley" instead of a lubby potato-potato sound. I can get a real cammy crisp potato-potato sound if I drop the idle to say 750 rpm, but I keep it at 1000rpm.

Overall zero complaints / happy I bought the pipe. I don't yet know if this pipe is adding to or hindering performance, won't know that until I get bike on dyno. It does have 2" primaries and some would argue that 2" is too large for a 107, but others will say it is beneficial. Depends who you talk to and if the heads are working well with it or not.

I will definitely shoot some video when I have it on dyno.
 

LA_Dog

Go Fast, Go Faster
hey all quick update- got about 500 miles on bike. all good except for a few electrical issues- had my ride cut short on Sunday because the stupid stator plug had again come loose, and i was riding on battery. it got too low and bike shut down. fortunately it happened right down street from my house so just pushed her back. I spent that evening hard-wiring the stator plug to the regulator plug. My mechanic mangled the stator plug (even though i had him put in a new Stator), so that is why it never seated correctly. Woulda been nice if they told me that instead of letting me "discover it" for myself.

I've been working on trying to cure the head breather oil carryover- I've got it down a lot but still too much to not use a catch can. I adjusted oil pressure on HVHP pump (it's in normal range), that helped the most. I put SS check valves on the case breather line and the head breather line- that did not make any diff on amount of carryover out top breather. case breather is dry. I tried running with case breather plugged and no diff. I tried running with head breather plugged (SS suggested trying it) and case breather open, and after a 20 mile ride started getting some oil seeping around top of pushrod tubes- so that didn't work but it told me I'm just collecting too much oil in the rockers.

I opened the cam chest and checked breather gear timing- it looked fine. I swapped in an SS breather reed valve and that did not make any diff on carryover. All of my oil lines are routed correctly, running a KP mesh oil filter and Jagg 6 row oil cooler.

The only time I get oil carryover out head breathers is after running hard / sustained RPMs - the oil I'm collecting in my catch can is white, foamy, milky. So I have a feeling that either (a) i'm getting too much air pressure up pushrod tubes and it is preventing oil from draining back at RPM, or, I'm just putting up more oil in rockers than can adequately drain down. But the milky oil in catch can tells me it is getting pretty violently churned / whipped up in the rockers.

I don't know- maybe next step is to try venting the line between cam chest and oil tank - e.g. add a Tee and a check valve to vent out more pressure instead of capturing pressure back into the oil tank. I also need to pop the rocker boxes and have a look at the size of drain holes and the umbrella valves to be sure they were installed correctly (or at all).

I'm getting the bike dyno tuned this friday along with a leak-down and compression test, so that will tell me how the motor is doing and if it's worth chasing down the remaining carryover mystery- it could very well be ring blow-by causing the issue.

You know what's weird- my TP case has the "older" style cam chest with the lower left window area. the cam gasket has the window in it sealing off this area. this is probably why I can both case breath and head breath without pissing oil out the case breather. Whether this is optimal or not... I don't know.
 

LA_Dog

Go Fast, Go Faster
BTW- it is super easy to remove the evo camchest cover without loosening or removing pushrods. place bike on stand so rear wheel is off ground. put bike in high gear. pull spark plugs and the timing window cover bolt. turn the motor until you are on Front piston TDC mark in the flywheel timing window on compression stroke (usually T:F with the ":" in center of window). Make sure you are on compression stroke by placing your thumb over front spark plug hole as you turn motor coming up to the T:F mark- you should feel pressure on your thumb. If not you are on the exhaust stroke so do a complete revolution of motor.

Remove the ignition module and rotor cup, making sure to mark everything's position in the nose cone with a sharpie so you can line things back up afterwards. make lots of marks in case one gets wiped off. Then after the rotor cup is off, turn the motor slightly until the rotor cup slot on the end of cam is at 5 o'clock position (it is at 7 o'clock when you're at F TDC compression when you removed the rotor cup). Now you're ready to pull the cam cover.

This pulls enough lifter tension off the cam to easily slide off the cam cover and put it back on without any drama. The only thing hanging you up will be the top and bottom locator pins on the engine case so you'll have to sort of walk the cover off a bit top to bottom until it un-sticks from the locator pins. There is one locator pin dead center top, and one dead center bottom. An inexpensive cam cover puller tool would be really helpful since it is hard to get a good grip on the cover.

>>Be sure to keep your thumb on end of cam while pulling cover off so you don't accidentally pull the cam out (or use the cover puller tool)- not likely but it could happen if not careful.

>>Lay your bolts out in order as you remove them from the cam cover. they are all different sizes.

>>Also! watch for the falling breather gear spacer. they like to drop right out. you need to stick it somewhere visible so you don't forget to put it back in. use a dab of grease to hold it on to the breather gear when you re-assemble.

>>You'll probably get a 1/2 cup of oil out of the cam chest so put a container under bike, and maybe some tin foil over your frame rail and exhaust pipe. you can lay the cam cover forward and down on the ground, the only thing holding you back will be the length of your ignition module wires.

>>Wipe off inside of cam cover and make sure no bumps of old gasket are stuck to surface. don't use permatex or anything on the gasket, it is not needed unless your gasket is shagged and you are too cheap to buy a new one (LOL).

After you put the cam cover back on and snugged cover bolts (you put back in the breather gear spacer right??) , re-assemble the rotor cup on the cam. Make absolutely sure to line up the tang on back of the rotor cup with slot on the cam shaft. otherwise, you are going to mangle the rotor cup when you tighten it down. then just turn the motor back until you are at F TDC in the timing window and your rotor cup mark lines up (you marked everything before dis-assembly right??) . then put your ignition module back on and line up your marks. done, no re-timing needed.

Use blue locktight on the rotor cup bolt, do not over tighten- maybe 40 inch-lbs max, e.g just snug it up and then a slight bump. Same for cam cover bolts. just enough to compress the gasket a bit.

Put your plugs back in, timing window cover bolt, and take the bike out of gear (neutral). check oil level. fire her up.
 
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LA_Dog

Go Fast, Go Faster
well more bullshit today unfortunately - heard some whining from cam chest, changed oil and found steel pieces in filter. opened cam chest. nose cone bushing was spun out of cone and is stuck on the cam end. the metal thrust washer that sits between inside of cam and engine case is missing half of it and is dangling. so i know where the metal pieces came from now. the position of the dog-eared thrust washer looks like it was correctly positioned, but it is mutilated. there is no other spacer washer present and it looks like there is a bit of clearance. goddamn this thing was running so good too. why the hell would it grenade like that? I hope I can get the stuck nose cone bushing off the end of camshaft.
 
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Brew

Troop Supporter
Well brother, I have to say! If you pulled your cam cover as you explained above, thats bound to happen! You have to shorten your push rods to relieve the pressure off the cam... Just saying...:confused:
 
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