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585 change

Discussion in 'Motor' started by myanoch, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. stryfox

    stryfox Active Member

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    Not true for all big dogs. My 08 117 only has springs rated to .585 lift.
     
  2. myanoch

    myanoch Active Member

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    If you use the stock springs you will be doing the heads over when the springs bind and maybe some new valves also
    S&S released a new bhieve spring that will work with a .600 cam
    I believe your wasting your time without cutting the jugs you need to move up compression to cover overlap of .600 cam
    it's all about combinations
    Bigger cams don't work with out doing the whole combination
    Use magnets to to hold lifters up
    you can check end play by measuring shims and cam and compare to new cam
     

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  3. V

    V Guru

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    http://www.bigdogbiker.com/forums/motor/24206-new-valve-spring-s-s.html

    The new beehive from S&S is a .650 spring.

    The current beehive that are in the bikes now (mine is a 08) is the .585 beehive spring, these set ups also do not have the roller tip rockers.

    But also as mentioned there is clearance for the .600 cam. Just the stock spring is not rated for this.

    I know of .640 cams being run with the proper spring and there is not a clearance issue. I think there are quite a few bikes here with the .640 or greater cams

    The roller tip rockers are expensive ($450 a set) but are worth it if you figure the total cost out over your build (but thats just my opinion)

    Make corrections as required :lol: V
     
  4. myanoch

    myanoch Active Member

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    I agree with you V 100%
    I need to get roller rockers even with the 585 cam
    it has less side load on the valve and guide
    I spent money on the open belt drive so now i am out of cash
    I am also looking at cutting jugs
    wondering if it is a problem with pump gas and raising compression to 10.2 or what ever .30 deck cutting makes it
    the new springs you said is for .650 cam
    they will work on .600 cam installed seat pressure did not look that much higher
     
  5. troppushcet

    troppushcet Member

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    Yes you can change your cam to a 600 cam without having to change your heads or jugs. I have done this on 06, 07 ,08, 09 and 10s. So your 08 can be done. I found that when your told this from a shop...they just want your money!!! Where the cost really is and you want more performance. you change your nose cone to one that will allow you to add a sensor plate. Eliminating the crank trigger and ignition module and adding a Hi Crane 4 system with a 600 cam will give you what your wanting.
     
  6. myanoch

    myanoch Active Member

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    I disagree you don't need to do anything to your heads or jugs but it won't run well and springs will fail in time
    S&S will tell you that
    Just to say you have a .600 cam in it
    It's not going to make more horse power
    The cam overlap will kill it with the low compression and non roller rockers and springs not made for .600 lift cause problems
    Most shops know this because they checked for coil bind with those small springs
    Its not magic just good maching operiations
    Call the people that built the engine S&S won't tell you to put a .600 lift cam in that epa set up
    Besides why would you put a cam in too big for the engine combo
    Think its going to run better????
     
  7. john sachs

    john sachs Active Member

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    IMO,
    You're a gambiling man. Changing to the bigger cams,without changing valve springs,is like pissing in the wind. :loony:
    It's not a money thing in my shop....It's common sense. :2thumbs:
    This is what can happen when you DON'T use sound building practices. :angry:
    John
     

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  8. Rally

    Rally Active Member

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    john,
    what are your thoughts of only changing to the 585 cam alone?

    When going with the S&S 600 cam what springs do you use after decking the heads w/valve job, super G w/intake etc?

    Do you also like to change the stock ignition to something else?
    Thanks
     
    #88 Rally, Dec 23, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2010
  9. MARV

    MARV Well-Known Member

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    when i did my 640 cam i found the roller of the tappet was too close to the tappet block. had to remove a small amount to sleep at night.
     
  10. Iman

    Iman Well-Known Member

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    I had the 585 change and left everything else alone. V&H 2-2 and a PM super gas air cleaner. Steve from bikers dream installed it and dyno'd it. Very happy with this bolt in choice.
     

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  11. john sachs

    john sachs Active Member

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    :eek:

    That's a sound building practice...I find many like that. Today you need to check everything.Make up a build sheet,,and work from that. :up:
    John
     
  12. troppushcet

    troppushcet Member

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    Makes me wonder then the bikes I done this to...which has been many Big Dogs from different states. Have 20,000 miles and more on them. With no problems!! Customers have been very happy with the performance. I do know S&S motors, been building them for years. Like I said before shops just want your money.
     
  13. V

    V Guru

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    Never looked at that. Bad decision on my part (assumsion) figured they used the same tappet block on the 124 as the 117. But as looking thru a 2011 S&S catalog it seems like there is a diff. part number for every pc just about. Good call there :2thumbs:
     
  14. stryfox

    stryfox Active Member

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    Ok If you have been following what I did. I put the 585 in my bike.
    I just finished painting and putting my tins back on.
    I fired it up and adjusted the carb.
    I took it for a spin around the block...
    It is 40* here and there is snow on the ground but the streets are clear.
    I don't know if its because the tire and ground is cold but,it just spins the wheel when you twist the throttle....
    It never did that before!!!!
    So far I am a happy guy. I will try to fine tune it better when the weather clears. Then I will get it dyno tuned to make sure I am getting the most of the upgrade.
    It really was an easy job.
    Now maybe I can use a roofing torch to melt this snow.......
     
  15. francoblay1

    francoblay1 The Spaniard

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    Bump

    Anyone?
     
  16. Knuckles

    Knuckles Active Member

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    Change or make sure you have springs to handle the lift. Have them bench tested because they can weaken over time with heat.
    Port and polish worth it.
    Bump the compression and a programmable ignition brings it all to life.
     
  17. 08ridgid

    08ridgid Active Member

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    Ok, I'm considering doing this before Spring gets here. Is the 585 cam the same as the "easy start" 585? Whats the part number to upgrade the springs? Part number for roller rockers? Gaskets?
    I know thats a lot to ask, but thanks in advance.
     
  18. Brew

    Brew Troop Supporter

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    Contact Mcgroom, he can get you what ya need. He got me all the stuff I needed for my cam change out. I also ordered up some quickie push rods so I don't have to break into my rocker covers in the future in order to change out my push rod cover seals. He'll hook ya up!
     
  19. 08ridgid

    08ridgid Active Member

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    Thanks Brew
     
  20. 08ridgid

    08ridgid Active Member

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    For those who have wrenched into their motors, if I replace my valve springs I'm going to have to remove the heads and possibly the jugs and replace those gaskets too? I think I'm biting off more than I can chew....
     

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