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585 change

Discussion in 'Motor' started by myanoch, Nov 22, 2009.

  1. myanoch

    myanoch Active Member

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    I am thinking of installing a .585 s&s cam
    reson for .585 save spring change, rocker change and jug cutting
    What also I want to see if the 585 will perfom on valve setup without ripping everthing off it to make the 600 cam change
    I hope the 585 may help with beehive springs,
     
    #1 myanoch, Nov 22, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2009
  2. BDMike

    BDMike Member

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    I have the 585 on my 2005 Big Dog Chopper with the super E carb and I really like the performance. Great, crisp throttle response. I really have to hold on when I twist the throttle cuz the bike launches! :up:
    BDMike
     
  3. PA Chopper

    PA Chopper Active Member

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    I would like to see the pictures.
     
  4. kurtxt

    kurtxt Chopperman

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    Did the valve springs go lighter for the 09 models? Is that why you are going with the 585 cam and not the 600.
     
  5. V

    V Guru

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    The .585 spring is a single wound beehive type spring that has a smaller diameter at the top than the bottom. Rated for .585 cam lift. My 08 came with these and standard rockers (no roller tip). I added S&S roller tip rockers and cheated a bit with a Woods .590 cam.
    Are you going to pull a lifter block to chack cam end play?:cheers:
     
  6. myanoch

    myanoch Active Member

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    How did you like the roller rockers
    look like a good move on them
     
  7. V

    V Guru

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    Well I know they create less friction because of the roller and that can create less push aginst the valve but for the lift that there now the stock non roller shoud be okay. I upgraded because I had the tops off and would have them when/if I do more mods in the future.:cheers:
     
  8. myanoch

    myanoch Active Member

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    I hate when they have something on an engine and then change to something that will do
    I would have liked the roller rocker
    something to but later with some springs and jug decking
    have a nice holiday
     
  9. Throttle

    Throttle Member

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    I am having the 585 cam quoted on mine.. $400-500 mod vs $2000+ mod. This should be an improvement on the launch performance. As with any mod, I always want more torque in a few days after each improvement.
     
  10. myanoch

    myanoch Active Member

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    I am very pleased with the change took it out last night
    man that mother goes now
     
  11. Throttle

    Throttle Member

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    All good, This will be my Christmas present. In my house, each person picks out their own present first... Good Tradition~!
     
  12. knucklehead

    knucklehead Member

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    I did some checking around and the 585 is a better match than the 600 because of lower compression ratio. I decided to go with the Dave Mackie 580 cam over the s&s. He claimed his cam would walk all over the s&s, but probably pretty comparable. We'll see in spring. Can't wait- c'mon spring!
     
  13. nymikeok

    nymikeok on the back wheel

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    I called S&S yest. They said without bumping the compression the 600 and the 640 would be a loss without bumping it up. Then you would have to change the springs as well. He said the 585 was the best bolt in choice and that it would really wake her up.
     
  14. myanoch

    myanoch Active Member

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    I believe with the set up .the585 with lower compreeion smaller springs and no roller rockers you have no choice
    The .585 makes the bike scream
    yes the 600 with roller rockers and compression bumped up
    the 600 is great
    but if your not going all that the .585 is a piece of cake to install
    believe its t not week compination by any means
    and as S&S tech said they did not have to slam the exhaust closed with the overlap in the cam
    I am holding on when I hit it
     
    #14 myanoch, Dec 19, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2009
  15. vej

    vej Active Member

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    How much?

    How much of an improvement is the 585 over stock? I have an 08 Mastiff and would love to deck the jugs and put in a 600, but truth is I don't have the $$ anytime soon to rip it down, deck jugs, replace springs, rollertips, etc, etc.... but I could afford just a 585 cam.

    What's the difference performance wise between stock, 585, or 600 w/decked jugs?

    Thanks!!
     
  16. erldawg

    erldawg Guru

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    Compiled Specification Sheet

    The following specification sheet is something I've complied to go along with this thread. Please note that I did include a few higher lift cams that will require a valve spring change if you have the beehive springs. Personally I would also consider roller rockers with any cam change--that's just me...

    After chatting with "V" and speaking with Bob Wood is why I created this sheet to compare cams. I'm also including a link that explains valve timing, lift, duration and compression ratio so we can make a educated guess!

    Also note: Quote "Bob Wood-the W6H cam for the 117 will smoke the tire and rip the handlebars off" He also said that the W6H may need to go to a 400 + amp battery...One of his questions was how well does it crank...

    Quote from another website: "Many people tend to "over-cam" their engines. By that, I mean that the chosen cam is too racy for the rest of the engine which almost always causes disappointing performance at low-to-mid range rpm's. For example, if an otherwise stock engine is modified with straight drag pipes and a racy cam, the engine response below 4,000 rpm's will be very flat as many bikers have sadly discovered. It may have a brief horsepower "hit" at high rpm but getting to high rpm may be a challenge in itself. One reason for this torque loss is the reduction of cranking compression due to the racy cam's longer valve duration which lets air/fuel charge escape the cylinder and then........adios torque! For street use at normal rpm's, a conservative cam choice is more practical than a radical top-end cam and it will often out-perform a hotter cam because of it's superior powerband. The subjects of camshafts and valve timing are deep ones. " I believe this statement will hold true for our 117's the way they are but if you deck the cylinders and shave the heads to increase compression then the higher lift cams will work just fine. Remember our bikes are 9.6:1 compression Reference the owners manual.

    This is good reading here:
    NRHS - High Performance for your Harley Twin Cam, Evolution, Sportster or Buell!

    [​IMG]
     
    #16 erldawg, Jan 29, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2010
  17. knucklehead

    knucklehead Member

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    Awesome post erldawg! I've been trying to figure out what all these numbers mean. The NHRS article was a big help. I noticed a typo on the s&s .585. The exhaust open/close should read 60/20, not 0/20. I only noticed because I was comparing the s&s .585 with the DM.580. Thanks again.
     
  18. erldawg

    erldawg Guru

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    I had fixed that once already. I too noticed the typo so I replaced the chart...Thanks knuckle :2thumbs:
     
  19. Raywood

    Raywood The Pirate
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    Great post Earl. Sure is a lot of variations on these cams for the small differences. I'm thinking that .585 would be a great replacement for our stock motors.

    :cheers:
     
  20. erldawg

    erldawg Guru

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    Thanks Ray. I'll agree with ya on the running the milder .585 cam. I would love to see Dyno runs comparing the .585 to the .600 S&S cams.
     

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