More 'Dog-nostics'

[SKOGDOG]

Needing to replace the (in tank) fuel filter in an EFI 2010 Bagger. The pickup of fuel is accomplished by pulling gas first through a filter, then (@about 60-65 psi) into a hose leading to the fuel pump. I would assume that the fuel pump does not intake fuel at 60 psi...but that's just an assumption.
In removing the filter for replacement, I noticed that the hose has a very sturdy pinch-type clamp on the pinch clamp (I don't know if that is the right name for this thing). I literally had to hacksaw the damn thing off, and as is true of many things I destroy, I find no way don't have a way to replace it, something all we Dog owners are familiar with. The clamp has a band underneath it, and they had to have used a special a tool to pull up that the clamp. It is barely visible in the upper center of the picture of the old filter below. Apologies for the poor shot, but you've all seen those before.

Here is the question: Do I need to use another pinch clamp like the one in the photo when I install the new filter, or can I use a standard worm-gear type clamp? And if it needs a pinch clamp, where can I get that done or acquire the tool?
Hoping someone with solid experience with fuelies can provide counsel here. I suspect the fuel pickup is not as pressurized as the outflow of fuel to the injectors, but would like to know how serious that clamp has to be..........
Kudos as always to the geniuses of Dognostics

 

[pauldeepsea]

Needing to replace the (in tank) fuel filter in an EFI 2010 Bagger. The pickup of fuel is accomplished by pulling gas first through a filter, then (@about 60-65 psi) into a hose leading to the fuel pump. I would assume that the fuel pump does not intake fuel at 60 psi...but that's just an assumption.
In removing the filter for replacement, I noticed that the hose has a very sturdy pinch-type clamp on the pinch clamp (I don't know if that is the right name for this thing). I literally had to hacksaw the damn thing off, and as is true of many things I destroy, I find no way don't have a way to replace it, something all we Dog owners are familiar with. The clamp has a band underneath it, and they had to have used a special a tool to pull up that the clamp. It is barely visible in the upper center of the picture of the old filter below. Apologies for the poor shot, but you've all seen those before.
View attachment 38521
Here is the question: Do I need to use another pinch clamp like the one in the photo when I install the new filter, or can I use a standard worm-gear type clamp? And if it needs a pinch clamp, where can I get that done or acquire the tool?
Hoping someone with solid experience with fuelies can provide counsel here. I suspect the fuel pickup is not as pressurized as the outflow of fuel to the injectors, but would like to know how serious that clamp has to be..........
Kudos as always to the geniuses of Dognostics

That clamp is an oteiker clamp, I am not sure of the size but I use them on allot of hose connections. I would think that a normal hose clamp will work.

 

[pauldeepsea]

Actually after re looking at the clamp I am not sure if the worm type clamps may be solid enough to hold that. Have you tried grainger or some other suppliers that may carry those clamps?

 

[pauldeepsea]

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/Stepl...ium=shopping?gclid=CMbPmpPmmNECFQ5EfgodKMMCVg

 

[pknowles]

Take it to a Harley shop . They use the same clamps on their fuel systems.the intake or filter side of the pump is under a vacuum. Hope this helps.

 

[Mr. Wright]

I use tile nipping pliers, with the flat cutting edge in front, to crimp those clamps. I have an old pair that are dull, but if you have to buy some just file the edge down. their a lot cheaper than the tool that's made for them.

 

[BWG56]

I have used these from HF on those type clamps

 

[pknowles]

I have used these from HF on those type clamps
View attachment 38532

they look like the tool my wife used to trim her horses hooves .

 

[Jwooky]

A stainless worm clamp will work fine.

There is no pressure at that joint. In fact, it will be suction.

I have the version that the screen actually just snaps on with no clamp.

I also use the nippers from HF like ker for those clams.

To remove those clams you can use a small screw driver to spread open the bow tie to allow it to spread out. I have even re used them many times.

 

[BWG56]

To remove those clams you can use a small screw driver to spear open the bow tie to allow it to spread out. I have even re used them many times.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

Take it to a Harley shop . They use the same clamps on their fuel systems.the intake or filter side of the pump is under a vacuum. Hope this helps.

I wouldn't think it's under a vacuum the pressure inside the gas tank is atmospheric pressure. It sucks a little but mainly gravity fed. Speaking of which Rick don't forgot about the little white check valve on the gas cap not sure if that was still an issue in 2010

I would think a Stainless Steel hose clamp would work fine for this if you can't source the other clamp. Just something to keep it from falling off. I imagine just like many things the reason going with that particular clamp was it's cheaper than a stainless hose clamp.

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

 

[pknowles]

I wouldn't think it's under a vacuum the pressure inside the gas tank is atmospheric pressure. It sucks a little but mainly gravity fed. Speaking of which Rick don't forgot about the little white check valve on the gas cap not sure if that was still an issue in 2010

I would think a Stainless Steel hose clamp would work fine for this. Just something to keep it from falling off. I imagine just like many things the reason going with that particular clamp was it's cheaper than a stainless hose clamp.

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

"Fundamentals of Hydraulic Dredging" This book doesn't have a damn thing to do with big dogs but you will find some great information on centrifugal pumps and what "pressure and vacuum" is and the effects of atmospheric pressure on these functions. I had the pleasure of meeting Tom and attending one of his seminars back in the late 70's. The pump creates a void which is filled with gas from our tanks by a vacuum and the impeller creates pressure. Pumps have 2 orifices, a suction side and a discharge or pressure side. My explanation is very simple and very basic. start any pump and stick you finger on the intake side...What happens.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

"Fundamentals of Hydraulic Dredging" This book doesn't have a damn thing to do with big dogs but you will find some great information on centrifugal pumps and what "pressure and vacuum" is and the effects of atmospheric pressure on these functions. I had the pleasure of meeting Tom and attending one of his seminars back in the late 70's. The pump creates a void which is filled with gas from our tanks by a vacuum and the impeller creates pressure. Pumps have 2 orifices, a suction side and a discharge or pressure side. My explanation is very simple and very basic. start any pump and stick you finger on the intake side...What happens.

I get where your coming from and know what your saying..i was kinda just more arguing the term 'vacuum'. I agree that hose has some amount of negative pressure to suck in gas.

I also agree that hose sucks! Haha

I just don't think it's under any significant amount of pressure as the fuel pump just like the carb has a bowl I imagine. Outlet is a different story but I still think even with 60 PSI a hose clamp will hold too.



Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

 

[SKOGDOG]

As always--thanks gentlemen. Great comments and suggestions. Being somewhat of a tool whore, I will no doubt go over to HF and find one of those if we get to Joplin before the filter arrives. I could also rent that tool to Blacktopper's wife when she trims his toenails (Jan/July). Haha
I believe a stainless worm gear clamp would be adequate. After all, the pump runs at pressure, but would not need that kind of force for intake, simply using vacuum. So it makes sense, and as Eric says, it's cheaper.
And I am pretty sure the fuel does not erode stainless, so that's not an issue either.

 

[Th3InfamousI]

As always--thanks gentlemen. Great comments and suggestions. Being somewhat of a tool whore, I will no doubt go over to HF and find one of those if we get to Joplin before the filter arrives. I could also rent that tool to Blacktopper's wife when she trims his toenails (Jan/July). Haha
I believe a stainless worm gear clamp would be adequate. After all, the pump runs at pressure, but would not need that kind of force for intake, simply using vacuum. So it makes sense, and as Eric says, it's cheaper.
And I am pretty sure the fuel does not erode stainless, so that's not an issue either.

I thought about gas eroding stainless and then I thought well if it did that we all be in a world of trouble our tanks are Steel.. Haha

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

 

[pknowles]

As always--thanks gentlemen. Great comments and suggestions. Being somewhat of a tool whore, I will no doubt go over to HF and find one of those if we get to Joplin before the filter arrives. I could also rent that tool to Blacktopper's wife when she trims his toenails (Jan/July). Haha
I believe a stainless worm gear clamp would be adequate. After all, the pump runs at pressure, but would not need that kind of force for intake, simply using vacuum. So it makes sense, and as Eric says, it's cheaper.
And I am pretty sure the fuel does not erode stainless, so that's not an issue either.

Just for cheap insurance I would bend the end of the clamp up so it couldn't come loose. Also hose clamps are cheap, use 2.

 

[pknowles]

one more thing, I'm sure you have a thermistor in the tank for the low fuel light . you might want to take a look at that also.

 

[SKOGDOG]

I was impressed with the tightness of the O-clamp. There was a stainless flat ring underneath it (same function as a washer--to evenly distribute force. So when you pull up with the clamp pliers, it really is tight.
Paul, your comment really makes sense--any pump that can do 65 psi should have the capacity to really suck--seems to me it would depend on the size of the intake.
And Eric--I washed out the tank yesterday because there was a little debris in it, and blew out the gas cap, and it vented just fine. Didn't see a white tab..what's that about?

 

[Th3InfamousI]

I was impressed with the tightness of the O-clamp. There was a stainless flat ring underneath it (same function as a washer--to evenly distribute force. So when you pull up with the clamp pliers, it really is tight.
Paul, your comment really makes sense--any pump that can do 65 psi should have the capacity to really suck--seems to me it would depend on the size of the intake.
And Eric--I washed out the tank yesterday because there was a little debris in it, and blew out the gas cap, and it vented just fine. Didn't see a white tab..what's that about?

That white cap in the middle of the underside of the gas cap right in between the threads. It's supposed to be a checkvalve of some sort most everyone unscrewed it because it was causing cavitation issues.

Maybe they got rid of it by 2010? I don't know.

Supposed to be 70's this weekend here in Dallas not sure if your getting warm weather up there but I suppose you mihjt not have all the parts to get a ride in?


Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

 

[SKOGDOG]

I was impressed with the tightness of the O-clamp. There was a stainless flat ring underneath it (same function as a washer--to evenly distribute force. So when you pull up with the clamp pliers, it really is tight.

The thermistor is #50 on this schematic. How does one check it?