Phil Ross "The Man Behind The Modern Belt Drive"

[Raywood]

Posted with permission from Phil.
SuperMax Belt Drives For Harley-Davidson Motorcycles

Many of you know that I promote SuperMax at every opportunity. I do this cause I think they provide a great product. SuperMax is not new to the scene. They have been in business for many years.
Phil developed a dual belt drive system for Harley's many yeas ago. This was way before HD had the foresight to do it!

I was the recipiant of one of these dual belt drives back in 82 or 83. Phil developed a special poly clutch hub with the starter ring on it and all we had to do was send in your inner primary and swing arm for some modification.

My 81 Wide glide with dual belts on it:


Many of you here are familiar with "rotating mass". This is the centrifugal forces created from a rotating object or something like that! You Engineers on here can describe it better than I can.
Phil's system used poly sprockets and eliminated many pounds of material to your existing system. Just think of how much weight we have in our clutch hub and shell, chain and sprockets!!! Can you imagine eliminating a good majority of this weight?
Here are a couple example of SuperMax's sprockets;

Your stock pulley:


SuperMax's pulley:


Wow, about a 60% savings if my math is correct. Just as racers try to use the lightened wheels and brakes these poly sprockets help achieve the same thing.
W8less Rotors is doing the same thing with rotors using a light weight material I think called "metal matrix composite (MMC)".

Anyway with all the threads on here about belts sprockets and squealing I thought I would post another option you have in eliminating this problem. On our 05 and newer bikes BDM went with a Teflon coated sprocket but it eventually wears and then you are back to the squeal. 04 and older just have to live with it or carry a can of silicone with them.



But SuperMax can do something that will end your squealing issues forever. They can take your pulley and turn it down and pin/glue on a poly overlay on it that will last you for the rest of your days with the bike.



What's great about this too is he can mill your sprocket down then send it out for powder-coating or chrome then put his overlay on it. Kool option here.

As for durability.......... Well my old Shovel ran it for over 25 years and I never had to replace the belt or pulleys and I DID put a lot of miles on that thing!

Phil gave me permission to print this up. Not a sales thing or anything like that just giving you guys another option that I know of and have had personal experience with.

Many here also may want to know what Phil rides today. You may not believe it but he still rides an old Pan/Shovel Stroker motor with a magneto ignition. Pretty kool old bike and check out the seat.

You guys ever get down to Arizona check him out.


The man that created the modern dual belt drive.

[V]

Interesting Ray. How does it hold up to high performance applications?

Does he have the ability to make the band thicker hence adding extra teeth for lower gearing and fitting on the same sprocket?

Thanks V.

I noticed your sprocket in the pics earlier but wasn't sure when harley went to the belt drive. I do remember seeing it on the dealers floor when I bought a 1981 sportster (wanted a Sturgis but did not have the cash) Also remember the belt splice kit harley had with the long allen screws and special belt

Yep showing my age here

[Raywood]

Originally Posted by V

Interesting Ray. How does it hold up to high performance applications?

Does he have the ability to make the band thicker hence adding extra teeth for lower gearing and fitting on the same sprocket?

Thanks V.

I noticed your sprocket in the pics earlier but wasn't sure when harley went to the belt drive. I do remember seeing it on the dealers floor when I bought a 1981 sportster (wanted a Sturgis but did not have the cash) Also remember the belt splice kit harley had with the long allen screws and special belt

Yep showing my age here

Good memory V!!!!

I believe that first HD with the dual belts was the 82 Sturgis model but don't quote me on that. Been a long time ago. They may have had the belt drive on the rear on some models but my post was on the true "dual" belt drive.

Don't have an answer for your first two questions. You would have to check with Phil on that.

Deos HD still offer the emergancy belt? I thought it had some kind of hook and loop feature to connect it. Can't imagine screws!

[mcgroom]

Originally Posted by V

Interesting Ray. How does it hold up to high performance applications?

Does he have the ability to make the band thicker hence adding extra teeth for lower gearing and fitting on the same sprocket?

Thanks V.

I noticed your sprocket in the pics earlier but wasn't sure when harley went to the belt drive. I do remember seeing it on the dealers floor when I bought a 1981 sportster (wanted a Sturgis but did not have the cash) Also remember the belt splice kit harley had with the long allen screws and special belt

Yep showing my age here

V,

I spoke with him yesterday and got the impression he'd do what ever you need him to do.

He asked what I rode, hp and even how I rode.

I told him I was a stop light to stop light rider and he up charged me $50 for additional set screws.

He said, "I don't want to see that thing back in here" as he was chuckling.

After talking to him, I felt very comfortable and will not hesitate to send him my pulley if that is the direction I decide to go.

He called me back within a couple hours of me leaving a message and he said it would have been sooner but it was 4am when I called.

[LDO]

I realize that you get what you pay for and I'm not knocking the technology or his skill but dang, to get your rear pulley done is pretty darn pricey.

Especially when I can get a new pulley from shovelhead kicker for 90-100 bucks. Sure, I'll have the same problem in about 15,000 more miles but that's still 15,000 miles from now.

Just seems like it should be cheaper is all I'm saying....

[BBChopper]

Good info Ray!!!!!

[Raywood]

Bit of history for all of you. I'm biased on Supermax so..............

The "Sturgis" was HD's first dual belt drive. I did mine in 1982.

Ray;
The Sturgis made it's debut in 1980. My bike, "Mighty Hog" was the test bed for the final drives that were to come and was constructed in 1977, 3 years prior to the factory installed belt drives. I rode to Sturgis in 77 and people were standing 6 deep looking at the first functional final drive. They had no idea of what was to come, but I did.
Thank you for your putting some of our info on your forum.
I see some people think that the price of the over-lay is too expensive. We end up with 6 days work in each over-lay and we are swamped with work and there is no end in sight. All Aluminum pulleys suffer the same fate including the stock factory pulleys but being hard chromed, they do indeed last longer but eventually they too roll over with the hard chrome chunking off...Not a problem with the poly over-lays..Like materials are indeed the best of friends and the poly pulleys have a 92% return rate after the passage of debris.
The cost being too high?..Not really, as work is work and converting these rear pulleys to a viable part is a lot of work. If the manufacturer were to use these over-lays when the bikes were first produced, they would be a good deal less indeed, but it seems most manufacturers are only interested in getting the customer through warranty., I have been producing final drives for Harley's since late 77' and have yet to see one worn out that was correctly installed...As for the "BIG HORSEPOWER" bikes, we have one of our Over-Lays on a 154" R&R Stroker motor. It has been on there now for over 4 years and still no sign of fatigue or wearing. That should put to bed any question of durability..
The cost in belt life alone is worth the cost of the over-lay. The noise associated with the worn pulley is another irritant.
I see that one of your replies was questioning the possibility of adding teeth to a original pulley. I guess that that would not be an option in most cases. In the case of a 65 tooth pulley, it may be possible to drop 1 tooth and go to a 64 but that would be almost pointless as the difference would be so slight. A better option on gear ratios I would say, is change the Transmission pulley. 1 tooth on the transmission is worth 2 teeth on the rear wheel pulley.We offer them in 31, 32. 33 and 34 tooth configurations..You can have a 6 speed without having to shift, shift, shift and etc...Just gear it to suit yourself..
Hope this helps clarify some of the questions.
Once thanks again for showing some of the Big Dog riders that there are better things out there. Phil Ross, SMP
Our Motto,; "Buy Your Last Belt Drive First".

[BorgerBigDog]

Maybe i am blind but i checked his site and didnt see a price,with this added i might take off the guard...

[TLB08K9]

So what is the cost do to have this done to a big dog?

[Raywood]

There is one or two here that have had it done now but can't find them. I think the rear pulley is about $500 but now real sure. One of the great things about this is he can chrome your pulley which if you did it now it will remove the teflon on your pulley so this is a pretty good deal but it cost a bit. If you are putting on a lot of miles then I can see the benefits.

[BikersDream]

Just back from Supermax and Chrome shop a 2004 Ridgeback pulley. Looks nice. Pulley teeth colors are an option!

[TLB08K9]

Originally Posted by BikersDream

Just back from Supermax and Chrome shop a 2004 Ridgeback pulley. Looks nice. Pulley teeth colors are an option!

Thanks mine is starting to show wear at 9k ( i just assumed it was due to my riding style) I hope my dog makes it up there with rays so this might be a great thing when i need mine replaced.